Having Your Pi, and eating it too. |
  |
 Sep 25 2006, 09:52 AM
Post
#1
|
|
 Papier schreiben und sonstige Sachen als ersetzung für den geile  Group: Members Posts: 8,059 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 75  |
Why does the Gemara assume that pi=3?
-------------------- טוב להתלונן מחר מלעשות משהו היום
|
 |
 
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 09:54 AM
Post
#2
|
|
 Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 10:52 AM)  Why does the Gemara assume that pi=3? See various meforshim, and Artscroll of course. The Gra also has a great vort on a possuk about the original "yam shel Shlomo". -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 10:05 AM
Post
#3
|
|
 Formerly known as Enforcer  Group: Moderator Posts: 168 Joined: 18-July 06 From: Undisclosed Member No.: 3,046 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 10:52 AM) Why does the Gemara assume that pi=3? Rounding down. Also, they didn't have calculators for the really complex computations. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 10:13 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,084 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Mordechai @ Sep 25 2006, 10:54 AM) See various meforshim, and Artscroll of course. The Gra also has a great vort on a possuk about the original "yam shel Shlomo". [Off topic: While sitting in shul on Shabbat, I was trying to get my oldest son to figure out in his head if the yam shel shlomo could really hold the equivalent of 150 mikva'ot as the gemara says given the dimensions of a mikvah and the yam shel shlomo.] |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 10:58 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Papier schreiben und sonstige Sachen als ersetzung für den geile Group: Members Posts: 8,059 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 75 |
QUOTE (Enforcer @ Sep 25 2006, 11:05 AM) Rounding down. Also, they didn't have calculators for the really complex computations. They still were able to figure out it was 3.14-ish. The Greeks knew it; why didn't the Amoraim? [Stammaim?  ]
-------------------- טוב להתלונן מחר מלעשות משהו היום
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:00 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 11:58 AM) They still were able to figure out it was 3.14-ish. The Greeks knew it; why didn't the Amoraim? [Stammaim? ]Gabbe, to this day nobody knows the exact value of Pi, why do you expect more from the Amoraim? -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:04 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Papier schreiben und sonstige Sachen als ersetzung für den geile Group: Members Posts: 8,059 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 75 |
I'm not talking about an exact value. The Greeks had it down to 7/22. We use 3.14 as a useful estimate. A tenth is a significant enough chunk that anyone doing some basic experimentation ---like Tosafos who obviously sat down with some string--- would notice it. Not to mention that the Yam Shel Shlomo's dimensions leave a discrepency of what, 14 amos? No one noticed that?
-------------------- טוב להתלונן מחר מלעשות משהו היום
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:08 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,084 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 12:04 PM) I'm not talking about an exact value. The Greeks had it down to 7/22. We use 3.14 as a useful estimate. A tenth is a significant enough chunk that anyone doing some basic experimentation ---like Tosafos who obviously sat down with some string--- would notice it. Not to mention that the Yam Shel Shlomo's dimensions leave a discrepency of what, 14 amos? No one noticed that? Isn't the question on Nach (sefer melachim) rather than on the gemara? |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:09 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 12:04 PM) I'm not talking about an exact value. The Greeks had it down to 7/22. We use 3.14 as a useful estimate. A tenth is a significant enough chunk that anyone doing some basic experimentation ---like Tosafos who obviously sat down with some string--- would notice it. Not to mention that the Yam Shel Shlomo's dimensions leave a discrepency of what, 14 amos? No one noticed that? Well, obviously we must conclude that the circle as we know it only came into existence around Medieval times. Prior to that, circles were not perfectly round. -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:09 AM
Post
#10
|
|
 Godol Hador Group: Members Posts: 5,740 Joined: 12-December 05 Member No.: 2,104 |
Did the hahamim do basic experimentation? Doubtlessly some examples can be adduced to prove they did, others that they didn't.
-------------------- |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:11 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Papier schreiben und sonstige Sachen als ersetzung für den geile Group: Members Posts: 8,059 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 75 |
QUOTE (melech @ Sep 25 2006, 12:08 PM) Isn't the question on Nach (sefer melachim) rather than on the gemara? It's on both.QUOTE (artscroll @ Sep 25 2006, 12:09 PM) Did the hahamim do basic experimentation? Doubtlessly some examples can be adduced to prove they did, others that they didn't. Well, if the broken record says that Chazal knew the "science of the day"...they should have known this too. -------------------- טוב להתלונן מחר מלעשות משהו היום
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:12 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 12:10 PM) It's on both. The Gra has a gematria on the word "v'kavoh" which appears in the possuk describing the dimensions of the pool - basically, the "hey" at the end of "kavoh" is a kri/ksiv, and the ratio of the 111/106 x 3 = very close to pi. -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:12 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Papier schreiben und sonstige Sachen als ersetzung für den geile Group: Members Posts: 8,059 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 75 |
Shame Ravina and Rav Ashi didn't know this GRA...
-------------------- טוב להתלונן מחר מלעשות משהו היום
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:14 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 12:12 PM) Shame Ravina and Rav Ashi didn't know this GRA... Lav davka. But let's discuss more pressing issues, such as: is the earth flat or spherical? -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:15 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,084 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Mordechai @ Sep 25 2006, 12:14 PM) Lav davka. But let's discuss more pressing issues, such as: is the earth flat or spherical? I don't think the earth is flat. That's my vote. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:15 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Godol Hador Group: Members Posts: 5,740 Joined: 12-December 05 Member No.: 2,104 |
QUOTE (Gabbe @ Sep 25 2006, 12:11 PM) It's on both. Well, if the broken record says that Chazal knew the "science of the day"...they should have known this too. Why should Chazal have known the "science of the day?" I've noticed that most, if not all, rabbanim of the early modern period didn't know the science of their day. -------------------- |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:15 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Newbie Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 6,257 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Earth Member No.: 710 |
QUOTE (melech @ Sep 25 2006, 12:15 PM) I don't think the earth is flat. That's my vote. Yes but what did the Torah scholars of yore hold? -------------------- Do you love the IRS? If so please do NOT support the FairTax proposal!
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2006, 11:17 AM
Post
|