Tur OC 11, the knots and windings |
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 Mar 13 2008, 08:56 AM
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#1
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Where did the practice of making a double hole like a tzeirei in the beged for the tzitzit originate? Why would someone have a different practice for a tallit katan and tallit gadol?
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Mar 13 2008, 09:24 AM
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#2
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 Disgustingly Insensitive Group: Members Posts: 16,825 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Occupied Palestine Member No.: 407 |
It is al pi Kaballah, and it is not "proper" to display to the world that you are noiheg al pi Kaballah, so it is not done on a Talis Godol.....
-------------------- [/flirting]
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Mar 13 2008, 09:36 AM
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 34,108 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 13 2008, 09:24 AM)  It is al pi Kaballah, and it is not "proper" to display to the world that you are noiheg al pi Kaballah, so it is not done on a Talis Godol..... But don't a lot of those guys wear their tallit katan exposed, at least on occassion? |
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Mar 13 2008, 12:18 PM
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#4
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 Kicked Out Of The OLWWPPOF Club Completely Group: Members Posts: 12,624 Joined: 23-May 05 From: Tipah Sirucha Member No.: 1,516 |
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 13 2008, 09:56 AM) Where did the practice of making a double hole like a tzeirei in the beged for the tzitzit originate? Why would someone have a different practice for a tallit katan and tallit gadol? Its a chasidish minhag. My last pair had them and everyone wanted to know if I was chasidish. 9 -------------------- "Eat. Spit. Be Happy." -Davids
"Who is wise? he who can learn from every man. can be applied here, getting 'inspiration' from a one eyed whacko." - soapmaker " He who stands on toilet is high on pot" -Confucius " When life gives you lemons make lemonade..... but if life gives you a handful of cr@p, dont try making anything out of it, trust me on that one. -Dahlai Lama " I love Jews." -Somebody must have said it, somewhere "A good friend will come and bail you out of jail................. but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "d@mn that was fun". Make aliyah, or aliyah will make you. OFF SAVING THE WORLD |
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Mar 13 2008, 12:22 PM
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#5
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 Rebbe  Group: Members Posts: 2,434 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 13 2008, 10:24 AM) It is al pi Kaballah, and it is not "proper" to display to the world that you are noiheg al pi Kaballah, so it is not done on a Talis Godol..... QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 13 2008, 01:18 PM) Actually it is not only for a "kabalistic" reason. see the Magen Avraham (and the bach, both of them were not chassidim, neither was the baal haitur for that matter) Siman 11 SK 13 -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Mar 13 2008, 12:52 PM
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#6
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Group: Members Posts: 34,108 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Mar 13 2008, 12:22 PM) Actually it is not only for a "kabalistic" reason. see the Magen Avraham (and the bach, both of them were not chassidim, neither was the baal haitur for that matter) Siman 11 SK 13 So basically it's a chumra and it's yuhora to display adherence to this chumra? |
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Mar 13 2008, 12:58 PM
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#7
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,434 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 13 2008, 01:52 PM) So basically it's a chumra and it's yuhora to display adherence to this chumra? Yeah. The question is, if a whole segment of jews do a certain "chumrah" without them even realizing that they are following a chumrah is that also yuharah? everyone knows that they just bought their tzitzit from the store. -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Mar 13 2008, 01:02 PM
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#8
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Group: Members Posts: 34,108 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Mar 13 2008, 12:58 PM) Yeah. The question is, if a whole segment of jews do a certain "chumrah" without them even realizing that they are following a chumrah is that also yuharah? everyone knows that they just bought their tzitzit from the store. Interesting question. First of all, if a lot of people do something such that it's normative, it's not yuhorah anymore. That's the excuse, for example, for "simpletons" to wear R"T tefillin in spite of what the Shulchan Aruch has to say on the topic. Second of all, on the subject of people not knowing if what they are doing is minhag, halachah, chumra, or other, then that's a whole other topic. I suppose if simpletons are just wearing what their Outreaching mentors tell them to, then maybe it's not yuhorah. |
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Mar 13 2008, 01:13 PM
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#9
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,434 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 13 2008, 02:02 PM) Interesting question. First of all, if a lot of people do something such that it's normative, it's not yuhorah anymore. That's the excuse, for example, for "simpletons" to wear R"T tefillin in spite of what the Shulchan Aruch has to say on the topic. Second of all, on the subject of people not knowing if what they are doing is minhag, halachah, chumra, or other, then that's a whole other topic. I suppose if simpletons are just wearing what their Outreaching mentors tell them to, then maybe it's not yuhorah. I was not even getting in to the "outreaching" issue. I was referring to those "already there". -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Mar 13 2008, 01:15 PM
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#10
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Group: Members Posts: 34,108 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Mar 13 2008, 01:13 PM) I was not even getting in to the "outreaching" issue. I was referring to those "already there". The argument stands. If someone is just buying something without understanding the issue behind it, let's say he's just following social convention or copying what he sees other doing or pulling the first thing he sees off the shelf, then I don't see how it's yuhorah. It's simply being a simpleton. |
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Mar 13 2008, 01:19 PM
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#11
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,434 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 13 2008, 02:15 PM) The argument stands. If someone is just buying something without understanding the issue behind it, let's say he's just following social convention or copying what he sees other doing or pulling the first thing he sees off the shelf, then I don't see how it's yuhorah. It's simply being a simpleton. It was not an argument. however I was trying to keep the outreaching issue separate, since I think there are various other issues and variables that come into play once you start talking about "outreaches". -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Mar 14 2008, 09:08 AM
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#12
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Kicked Out Of The OLWWPPOF Club Completely Group: Members Posts: 12,624 Joined: 23-May 05 From: Tipah Sirucha Member No.: 1,516 |
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 13 2008, 02:15 PM) or pulling the first thing he sees off the shelf, It's simply being a simpleton. Thats me. 9 -------------------- "Eat. Spit. Be Happy." -Davids
"Who is wise? he who can learn from every man. can be applied here, getting 'inspiration' from a one eyed whacko." - soapmaker " He who stands on toilet is high on pot" -Confucius " When life gives you lemons make lemonade..... but if life gives you a handful of cr@p, dont try making anything out of it, trust me on that one. -Dahlai Lama " I love Jews." -Somebody must have said it, somewhere "A good friend will come and bail you out of jail................. but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "d@mn that was fun". Make aliyah, or aliyah will make you. OFF SAVING THE WORLD |
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Apr 29 2008, 07:11 AM
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#13
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Group: Members Posts: 34,108 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Mar 13 2008, 01:22 PM) Actually it is not only for a "kabalistic" reason. see the Magen Avraham (and the bach, both of them were not chassidim, neither was the baal haitur for that matter) Siman 11 SK 13 Interesting discussion here by R. Moshe Shternbuch where he suggests the Ba"ch never saw the Ittur inside. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...t=ittur0001.jpg |
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