Did he burn clothes or people?, Middos 1:2 |
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 Jul 19 2008, 09:23 PM
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#1
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 Rebbe  Group: Members Posts: 2,440 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455  |
In honor of the start of the three weeks...
QUOTE THE OFFICER OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT USED TO GO ROUND TO EVERY WATCH, WITH LIGHTED TORCHES BEFORE HIM, AND IF ANY WATCHER DID NOT RISE [AT HIS APPROACH] AND SAY TO HIM, PEACE BE TO THEE, SUPERVISOR OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS ASLEEP, AND HE USED TO BELABOUR HIM WITH HIS STICK, AND HE WAS ALSO AT LIBERTY TO BURN HIS CLOTHES, AND THE OTHERS USED TO SAY, WHAT IS THE NOISE IN THE AZARAH? IT IS THE CRY OF A LEVITE WHO IS BEING BEATEN AND WHOSE CLOTHES ARE BEING BURNT, BECAUSE HE WAS ASLEEP AT HIS POST. R. ELIEZER B. JACOB SAID: ONCE THEY FOUND MY MOTHER'S BROTHER ASLEEP, AND THEY BURNT HIS CLOTHES. Were they wearing their clothes at the time (or was it like the Kohanim who watched,who were not allowed to wear their special clothes that they would wear while working in the Temple)? if they were wearing the clothes while it was burnt, how were they able to give the officer permission to burn them? I could understand how they can give permission to burn their clothes, but to burn the person himself? furthermore, if they were wearing those clothes and they were burn, why does the Mishnah stress that he had permission to burn their clothes, which seems to imply that it was their clothes and not them themselves? -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Jul 20 2008, 05:25 PM
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#2
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 חסד ואמת  Group: Members Posts: 8,845 Joined: 16-November 06 Member No.: 4,063 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Jul 19 2008, 10:23 PM)  In honor of the start of the three weeks... Were they wearing their clothes at the time (or was it like the Kohanim who watched,who were not allowed to wear their special clothes that they would wear while working in the Temple)? if they were wearing the clothes while it was burnt, how were they able to give the officer permission to burn them? I could understand how they can give permission to burn their clothes, but to burn the person himself? furthermore, if they were wearing those clothes and they were burn, why does the Mishnah stress that he had permission to burn their clothes, which seems to imply that it was their clothes and not them themselves? What would they wear if their clothes were burnt? Perhaps he didn't have to give them permission to burn his clothes until he had new ones. And, I did not know that the Leviim had special clothes for working in the BEis Hamikdash. -------------------- "If they would allow one dead soul to visit an assembly of philosophers, that would be the end of all their teachings."
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Jul 20 2008, 06:09 PM
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#3
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,440 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Jul 20 2008, 06:25 PM) What would they wear if their clothes were burnt? Their regular clothes? spear clothes? maybe their clothes werent totally burnt? but the question isn't if he burned their clothes (he did) the question is if the Levi got somewhat burnt as well in the process. QUOTE Perhaps he didn't have to give them permission to burn his clothes until he had new ones. I'm no sure I understand what you are saying. QUOTE And, I did not know that the Leviim had special clothes for working in the BEis Hamikdash. See Here -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Jul 20 2008, 06:39 PM
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#4
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חסד ואמת Group: Members Posts: 8,845 Joined: 16-November 06 Member No.: 4,063 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Jul 20 2008, 07:09 PM) Their regular clothes? spear clothes? maybe their clothes werent totally burnt? but the question isn't if he burned their clothes (he did) the question is if the Levi got somewhat burnt as well in the process. Wouldn't that be sreifa and have to be explicitly mentioned, and turn into a whole discussion of how much burning is life threatening? QUOTE I'm no sure I understand what you are saying. See Here Maybe the whole point of having to ask permission was to make sure the Levi would be able to get new clothes to wear while his old ones were burnt. Thanks. -------------------- "If they would allow one dead soul to visit an assembly of philosophers, that would be the end of all their teachings."
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Jul 20 2008, 06:50 PM
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#5
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,440 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Jul 20 2008, 07:39 PM) Wouldn't that be sreifa and have to be explicitly mentioned, and turn into a whole discussion of how much burning is life threatening? I dont know, maybe. but they were screaming. IOW that is part of the question. QUOTE Maybe the whole point of having to ask permission was to make sure the Levi would be able to get new clothes to wear while his old ones were burnt. Thanks. who said anything about ASKING permission? Your welcome. -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Jul 20 2008, 07:24 PM
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#6
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חסד ואמת Group: Members Posts: 8,845 Joined: 16-November 06 Member No.: 4,063 |
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Jul 20 2008, 07:50 PM) I dont know, maybe. but they were screaming. IOW that is part of the question. who said anything about ASKING permission? Your welcome. I meant getting permission. -------------------- "If they would allow one dead soul to visit an assembly of philosophers, that would be the end of all their teachings."
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Jul 20 2008, 09:02 PM
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#7
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Rebbe Group: Members Posts: 2,440 Joined: 16-March 04 Member No.: 455 |
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Jul 20 2008, 08:24 PM) I meant getting permission. It sounds like he did not have to "get" permission. He always "had" permission without especially getting it. -------------------- One Nation - One Land - One Torah
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Nov 2 2008, 05:00 PM
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#8
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 Now A Genome Sequencer Group: Members Posts: 13,050 Joined: 23-May 05 From: Tipah Sirucha Member No.: 1,516 |
-------------------- "Eat. Spit. Be Happy." -Davids
"Who is wise? he who can learn from every man. can be applied here, getting 'inspiration' from a one eyed whacko." - soapmaker " He who stands on toilet is high on pot" -Confucius " When life gives you lemons make lemonade..... but if life gives you a handful of cr@p, dont try making anything out of it, trust me on that one. -Dahlai Lama " I love Jews." -Somebody must have said it, somewhere "A good friend will come and bail you out of jail................. but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "d@mn that was fun". Make aliyah, or aliyah will make you. OFF SAVING THE WORLD |
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