Continuing Eating After Bentching |
![]() ![]() |
Continuing Eating After Bentching |
Jul 22 2008, 12:51 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
|
Do I make a new brocha on my drink if I continue drinking after I bentch?
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2008, 12:53 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2008, 01:18 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
|
Not if you had in mind that you were going to do that when you bentched.
-------------------- Make aliyah, and live in the country where your forefathers walked.
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2008, 02:27 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
|
What about if the drink was never a part of the meal? For example: I take a cup of water when I get to work. Then I eat lunch. Then I continue drinking. Does the brocha I made in the morning apply throughout the day?
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2008, 02:36 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
What about if the drink was never a part of the meal? For example: I take a cup of water when I get to work. Then I eat lunch. Then I continue drinking. Does the brocha I made in the morning apply throughout the day? R. Bodner says: QUOTE Even if the same type of food will subsequently be served at the meal, nevertheless, since the food was eaten before he startred the meal, a brocha achrona is required. That is to say, the issue is that bentching doesn't cover snacks eaten before a meal [eg. picking at food before lunch is served], so you need to say a berachah acharonah. And then you start fresh with the meal. However, he lists a number of exceptions to that general rule. For example, if you make kiddush for your younger brother, you neither say a berachah me-ein shalosh before washing nor do you say a new al ha-gafen during the meal. He also notes your specific question about drinks about which there is a machloket and therefore says: QUOTE The Poskim advise, therefore, that if one wishes to drink while waiting to start the meal, he should drink less than the shiur requred for a brachah achronah.
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2008, 02:36 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
|
I take a cup of water when I get to work. Then I eat lunch. Then I continue drinking. Does the brocha I made in the morning apply throughout the day? ah, that's a bit different than the OP. why would it apply throughout the day? if come take a drink in teh morning at home, doess that brocha apply throughout the say, if you are home the whole day? |
|
|
|
Jul 23 2008, 08:48 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE QUOTE What about if the drink was never a part of the meal? For example: I take a cup of water when I get to work. Then I eat lunch. Then I continue drinking. Does the brocha I made in the morning apply throughout the day? R. Bodner says: QUOTE Even if the same type of food will subsequently be served at the meal, nevertheless, since the food was eaten before he startred the meal, a brocha achrona is required. That is to say, the issue is that bentching doesn't cover snacks eaten before a meal [eg. picking at food before lunch is served], so you need to say a berachah acharonah. And then you start fresh with the meal. However, he lists a number of exceptions to that general rule. For example, if you make kiddush for your younger brother, you neither say a berachah me-ein shalosh before washing nor do you say a new ha-gafen during the meal. He also notes your specific question about drinks about which there is a machloket and therefore says: QUOTE The Poskim advise, therefore, that if one wishes to drink while waiting to start the meal, he should drink less than the shiur requred for a brachah achronah. Edited to add: I should add that of course making a berachah in the morning to apply throughout the day depends on whether there was a hefsek such as a shinui makom. If there was a hefsek such as a shinui makom, all bets are off anyway. |
|
|
|
Jul 23 2008, 12:44 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
|
Okay, there are two situations here.
1. This happens more often. I take a cup of water when I get to work. That cup stays on my desk and gets refilled throughout the day. Somewhere in the middle, I (hopefully) eat lunch. On occasion, I wash and bentch. So where does my cup of water fit into that? 2. This happened yesterday but barely ever happens. I took a cup of water when I got to work. Then I washed for lunch and took a can of Sprite Zero to accompany it. After bentching, I still had some Sprite Zero left, plus I still had my cup of water. |
|
|
|
Jul 24 2008, 05:33 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
|
1. This happens more often. I take a cup of water when I get to work. That cup stays on my desk and gets refilled throughout the day. Somewhere in the middle, I (hopefully) eat lunch. On occasion, I wash and bentch. So where does my cup of water fit into that? When I asked my rabbi that (minus the part about bentching in middle), he was hard pressed to give a concrete answer. The best I understood, if you're continually drinking, don't make another bracha. If there was a hefsek (one potential definition being that you forgot the water was there), do. Edit: On a somewhat related note, I have a problem when I've eaten a particularly good fruit. I want to make a bracha acharona in appreciation for the fruit but I'm still drinking so I don't. However, I know I'm going to be drinking for hours after finishing the fruit. Basically, I know I can't make a bracha acharona on the fruit. It's sad. -------------------- דעלך סני לחברך לא תעביד
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 11:56 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
I asked a rosh kollel. His reply was that bentching is a hefsek. One can't have in mind to exclude one's Sprite or ice cream from being included in the bentching. Once you bentch, it's a hefsek, and if you continue drinking or eating after bentching then one necessarily need a new berachah rishonah regardless of your intentions during bentching.
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 12:00 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 16,979 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Occupied Palestine Member No.: 407 |
I asked a rosh kollel. His reply was that bentching is a hefsek. One can't have in mind to exclude one's Sprite or ice cream from being included in the bentching. Once you bentch, it's a hefsek, and if you continue drinking or eating after bentching then you necessarily need a new berachah rishonah regardless of your intentions during bentching. Interesting... What if it is not "bentching" but an after brocha. So you make al hamichya on the twizzlers, but not borei nefashos on the coke zero??? There's also an curious minhag Chabad on the 2nd day of RH to eat a fruit after kiddush to make shehechayanu, (which is often one of the 7 minim) and there you CAN'T say al hagafen along with the after borcha fruit because then you lose kidush b'makom seudah, so it seems as if sometimes you CAN split the brocha achrona....... -------------------- [/flirting]
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 12:09 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
Interesting... What if it is not "bentching" but an after brocha. So you make al hamichya on the twizzlers, but not borei nefashos on the coke zero??? I don't know. I would guess that you could continue with the Coke Zero after the al hamichyah without a new she-ha-kol on the Coke Zero. What say you? QUOTE There's also an curious minhag Chabad on the 2nd day of RH to eat a fruit after kiddush to make shehechayanu, (which is often one of the 7 minim) and there you CAN'T say al hagafen along with the after borcha fruit because then you lose kidush b'makom seudah, so it seems as if sometimes you CAN split the brocha achrona....... Interesting. But there bentching includes the kiddush since kiddush is tied to the se'udah, but bentching doesn't necessarily exempt the fruit. If you don't say an al ha-eitz before you wash for bread, you may need to say a separate al ha-eitz after bentching to exempt the fruit which was not included in bentching, and which was not included in bentching because it wasn't part of the meal, and wasn't even part of the pre-meal kiddush. It's the same issue if you pick at the food before your meal while you're preparing it, like if you eat some tuna and cucumber while preparing it before you wash, if bentching later covers that pre-meal snack. |
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 12:22 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 16,979 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Occupied Palestine Member No.: 407 |
I don't know. I would guess that you could continue with the Coke Zero after the al hamichyah without a new she-ha-kol on the Coke Zero. What say you? I would guess so too, but what about the "hefsek"??? Why is Bentching a hefsek but not al hamichya??? QUOTE Interesting. But there bentching includes the kiddush since kiddush is tied to the se'udah, but bentching doesn't necessarily exempt the fruit. If you don't say an al ha-eitz before you wash for bread, you may need to say a separate al ha-eitz after bentching to exempt the fruit which was not included in bentching, and which was not included in bentching because it wasn't part of the meal, and wasn't even part of the pre-meal kiddush. It's the same issue if you pick at the food before your meal while you're preparing it, like if you eat some tuna and cucumber while preparing it before you wash, if bentching later covers that pre-meal snack. I understand the reasoning and it makes sense, but if "hefsek" is the issue, I don't see how any of the above is relevant..... -------------------- [/flirting]
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 12:25 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
I would guess so too, but what about the "hefsek"??? Why is Bentching a hefsek but not al hamichya??? I understand the reasoning and it makes sense, but if "hefsek" is the issue, I don't see how any of the above is relevant..... I would answer: Your berachah is a hefsek on whatever it covers, or can cover. You can't exclude anything. So bentching covers your Sprite and ice cream, and you can't exclude it. But al hamichyah doesn't cover your Coke Zero, so you can exclude it - you are intending to stop eating your grain product, so you say al hamichyah, but that has not relevance to your borei nefashot foods. You are making a hefsek on whatever is necessarily covered by the after-berachah in question. |
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 03:06 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
A rabbinic personage just called [not to speak to me, of course; for my wife] so I cornered him and asked him:
He agreed that bencthing is a hefsek and you can't have in mind to exclude your Sprite to continue drinking after bentching without a new berachah rishonah. As for eating cake and ice cream, and saying al hamichya but continuing to eat the ice cream, he said it's ok to do that. |
|
|
|
Aug 17 2008, 07:19 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 16,979 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Occupied Palestine Member No.: 407 |
A rabbinic personage just called [not to speak to me, of course; for my wife] so I cornered him and asked him: He agreed that bencthing is a hefsek and you can't have in mind to exclude your Sprite to continue drinking after bentching without a new berachah rishonah. As for eating cake and ice cream, and saying al hamichya but continuing to eat the ice cream, he said it's ok to do that. Interesting, I just don't get why it's a "hefsek", or why you even need to come to that line of reasoning. If you want to say it is gemiras daas not to eat anymore I could understand that (even if YOU decide in your mind that it isn't), but a hefsek seems like a stretch..... -------------------- [/flirting]
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2008, 05:19 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Group: Members Posts: 34,496 Joined: 2-September 03 Member No.: 239 |
Interesting, I just don't get why it's a "hefsek", or why you even need to come to that line of reasoning. If you want to say it is gemiras daas not to eat anymore I could understand that (even if YOU decide in your mind that it isn't), but a hefsek seems like a stretch..... I think that's the same thing: it's a hefsek because it's a gemirat da'at not to eat anymore. |