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Davening in a bathroom, only option?
smishu
post Aug 8 2008, 12:56 AM
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What if I am at work and I realize it is minchah time. The problem is there is no corner to go to or any private place, except the bathroom. If that is the only place I will have kavanah and feel comfortable, is that better than not davening at all?
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Majorthinker
post Aug 8 2008, 01:06 AM
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NO!!! Better to daven in a clean place instead of one which is assur!


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על כל אחד ואחת להוסיף בתורה ובמצוות כדי להכריע את עצמו ואת כל העולם כולו לכף זכות!
'It is every Jew's duty to add in Torah and mitzvot in order to bring the geula.'
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WaldoinGalus
post Aug 8 2008, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (smishu @ Aug 8 2008, 12:56 AM) *
What if I am at work and I realize it is minchah time. The problem is there is no corner to go to or any private place, except the bathroom. If that is the only place I will have kavanah and feel comfortable, is that better than not davening at all?


I'm pretty sure whether you are comfortable in your surrounding or not, provided it is a safe place you are supposed to daven. you absolutely DO NOT daven in the bathroom in the presence of human waste and excrement. We Jews need to learn to have great emunah and pride in our identity. The Ishmaelites will lay their carpets down wherever they happen to be, office, library and do their thing. Mincha specific you just have a prayerbook. how much distraction could their possibly be. The women bury their faces in the siddur to catch their tears, and hear themselves daven. maybe doing the same will bring you greater Kavannah unsure.gif

You are in an office yes? Perhaps if there is no meeting in the board room you could go in there for the 15mins you need to daven mincha. or else if you are on a lunchbreak step outside the office and find a nice park where you can appreciate Ribbono Shel Olam's fine
handiwork. Lichalta you can daven sitting down in your cubicle I think, drawing from the psak that in an airplane you can daven sitting but thats definately you have nowhere to go, in the office you're 'choosing' to have 'nowhere to go.'
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Majorthinker
post Aug 8 2008, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE (WaldoinGalus @ Aug 8 2008, 02:23 AM) *
I'm pretty sure whether you are comfortable in your surrounding or not, provided it is a safe place you are supposed to daven. you absolutely DO NOT daven in the bathroom in the presence of human waste and excrement. We Jews need to learn to have great emunah and pride in our identity. The Ishmaelites will lay their carpets down wherever they happen to be, office, library and do their thing. Mincha specific you just have a prayerbook. how much distraction could their possibly be. The women bury their faces in the siddur to catch their tears, and hear themselves daven. maybe doing the same will bring you greater Kavannah unsure.gif

You are in an office yes? Perhaps if there is no meeting in the board room you could go in there for the 15mins you need to daven mincha. or else if you are on a lunchbreak step outside the office and find a nice park where you can appreciate Ribbono Shel Olam's fine
handiwork. Lichalta you can daven sitting down in your cubicle I think, drawing from the psak that in an airplane you can daven sitting but thats definately you have nowhere to go, in the office you're 'choosing' to have 'nowhere to go.'

No, if you have the possibility of standing safely, then you must use it. Daven in your cubicle- and stand up when you need to.


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על כל אחד ואחת להוסיף בתורה ובמצוות כדי להכריע את עצמו ואת כל העולם כולו לכף זכות!
'It is every Jew's duty to add in Torah and mitzvot in order to bring the geula.'
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greentiger
post Aug 8 2008, 03:33 AM
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I'm not so sure. I heard a couple times that our bathrooms today don't really have the din of the outhouses and pits they used in the past. As long as the toilet lid is down, its not so clear cut... anyone...?

Also what kind of bathroom is this? A regular one or is it a big room with seperate stalls?


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Melech
post Aug 8 2008, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (greentiger @ Aug 8 2008, 04:33 AM) *
I'm not so sure. I heard a couple times that our bathrooms today don't really have the din of the outhouses and pits they used in the past. As long as the toilet lid is down, its not so clear cut... anyone...?

True that.
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Rachel
post Aug 8 2008, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (greentiger @ Aug 8 2008, 04:33 AM) *
I'm not so sure. I heard a couple times that our bathrooms today don't really have the din of the outhouses and pits they used in the past. As long as the toilet lid is down, its not so clear cut... anyone...?

Most bathrooms that I've seen in office buildings don't have toilet lids.
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FYI
post Aug 8 2008, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE (greentiger @ Aug 8 2008, 03:33 AM) *
I'm not so sure. I heard a couple times that our bathrooms today don't really have the din of the outhouses and pits they used in the past. As long as the toilet lid is down, its not so clear cut... anyone...?

Also what kind of bathroom is this? A regular one or is it a big room with seperate stalls?

Same here. I actually once heard that you can say asher yatzar outside of stalls if necessary since no longer a bathroom like the olden days, even though I realize it's not the ideal.


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The Chief
post Aug 8 2008, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (smishu @ Aug 8 2008, 12:56 AM) *
What if I am at work and I realize it is minchah time. The problem is there is no corner to go to or any private place, except the bathroom. If that is the only place I will have kavanah and feel comfortable, is that better than not davening at all?


whats the shaila!? of course it's better not to daven than to digrace hashem by davenin in the bathroom!
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smishu
post Aug 8 2008, 10:50 AM
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So its either a large one room, and i just face far away from the toilet obviously, or a large room with stalls in which i close all the doors and walk to the side.

Clearly its not ideal, thats why i asked the question, but yes, I do feel uncomfortable davnening in public, and it makes me sad to skip it.

(I am a woman)
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Melech
post Aug 8 2008, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE (smishu @ Aug 8 2008, 11:50 AM) *
So its either a large one room, and i just face far away from the toilet obviously, or a large room with stalls in which i close all the doors and walk to the side.

Clearly its not ideal, thats why i asked the question, but yes, I do feel uncomfortable davnening in public, and it makes me sad to skip it.

(I am a woman)

In the olden days, before cell phones became ubiquitous, there were these things called phone booths.
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smishu
post Aug 8 2008, 10:55 AM
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hmm..i could look into that
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Melech
post Aug 8 2008, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE (smishu @ Aug 8 2008, 11:55 AM) *
hmm..i could look into that

Good luck finding one any more. THese are mostly gone
http://www.showrods.com/images/phone_booth/phone_booth_real
being replaced by banks of phones on a wall or something like this
http://blogs.kcls.org/thebigread/assets_c/...umb-300x400.jpg

although I suppose maybe one day these will take off
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2005/09/68997
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Miketab
post Aug 8 2008, 11:05 AM
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You don't really even need a phone booth. Take out your cell phone and people will assume you're speaking to someone in Hebrew. Just don't shukle.... unsure.gif


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Knowwon
post Aug 8 2008, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (smishu @ Aug 8 2008, 11:50 AM) *
So its either a large one room, and i just face far away from the toilet obviously, or a large room with stalls in which i close all the doors and walk to the side.

Clearly its not ideal, thats why i asked the question, but yes, I do feel uncomfortable davnening in public, and it makes me sad to skip it.

(I am a woman)

So what do you do on a long plane ride?


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greentiger
post Aug 8 2008, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (FYI @ Aug 8 2008, 05:51 PM) *
Same here. I actually once heard that you can say asher yatzar outside of stalls if necessary since no longer a bathroom like the olden days, even though I realize it's not the ideal.

In seminary we had a mezuza hnging in the main entrance to the bathrooms (the room with the stalls) and there was an asher yatzar card hanging on the wall next to the sink. The rabbi said that that room is not considered halachikly part of the bathroom and needs a mezuza and one is allowed to sy asher yatzar there.


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TheDuncePolice
post Aug 8 2008, 12:52 PM
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