Getting a Head Start |
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Getting a Head Start |
Aug 14 2008, 12:35 AM
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#1
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Scenario:
You know someone in the process of converting (to Judaism). This person will be a great catch (complete with high shidduch score) once it’s complete. You know someone else you think would be a great match. Do you approach either party to get the wheels rolling before the conversion is complete? -------------------- "But it's a dry heat."
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Aug 14 2008, 12:39 AM
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#2
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Nope. As they say, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch". Your setting up a potentially heartbreaker of a situation.
-------------------- דעו מאביכם כי לא בוש אבוש שוב אשוב אליכם כי בא מועד
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Aug 14 2008, 12:45 AM
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#3
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Why any more of a heartbreaker than setting up any shidduch?
(Let's assume that there's no doubt in your mind that the conversion will actually take place within a short period of time.) -------------------- "But it's a dry heat."
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Aug 14 2008, 12:48 AM
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#4
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Why any more of a heartbreaker than setting up any shidduch? (Let's assume that there's no doubt in your mind that the conversion will actually take place within a short period of time.) Having no doubt in one's mind is not good enough in my opinion. All too often, human beings are certain of something happening and then it never does. (Man thinks and g-d laughs...) If you should set someone up and the conversion does not go through, then what? And there is no way that you can compare it to a regular shidduch where both parties are already frum. This is setting up a non-Jew with a frum person...Entirely different. -------------------- דעו מאביכם כי לא בוש אבוש שוב אשוב אליכם כי בא מועד
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Aug 14 2008, 12:53 AM
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#5
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Having no doubt in one's mind is not good enough in my opinion. All too often, human beings are certain of something happening and then it never does. (Man thinks and g-d laughs...) If you should set someone up and the conversion does not go through, then what? And there is no way that you can compare it to a regular shidduch where both parties are already frum. This is setting up a non-Jew with a frum person...Entirely different. There are ways to get the ball rolling without the parties actually dating (or even meeting each other) before the conversion. For instance, what if you said to the one converting, "You know, after the conversion when you're ready to date, give me a call first because I know a gal/guy who I think would be a really great match."? Not much potential heartbreak there. -------------------- "But it's a dry heat."
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Aug 14 2008, 12:56 AM
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#6
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There are ways to get the ball rolling without the parties actually dating (or even meeting each other) before the conversion. For instance, what if you said to the one converting, "You know, after the conversion when you're ready to date, give me a call first because I know a gal/guy who I think would be a really great match."? Not much potential heartbreak there. This is very different then what your original scenario insinuated. Actually going out on a date would be a big no-no. Mentioning to the person that you may have someone for them but they need to convert fully first is something entirely different. -------------------- דעו מאביכם כי לא בוש אבוש שוב אשוב אליכם כי בא מועד
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Aug 14 2008, 12:59 AM
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#7
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Scenario: You know someone in the process of converting (to Judaism). This person will be a great catch (complete with high shidduch score) once it’s complete. You know someone else you think would be a great match. Do you approach either party to get the wheels rolling before the conversion is complete? There are ways to get the ball rolling without the parties actually dating (or even meeting each other) before the conversion. For instance, what if you said to the one converting, "You know, after the conversion when you're ready to date, give me a call first because I know a gal/guy who I think would be a really great match."? Not much potential heartbreak there. This is very different then what your original scenario insinuated. Actually going out on a date would be a big no-no. Mentioning to the person that you may have someone for them but they need to convert fully first is something entirely different. Seems to me that my example is a case of "approaching either party". I would think that for dating to occur, both parties would have to be approached. -------------------- "But it's a dry heat."
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Aug 14 2008, 01:02 AM
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#8
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Seems to me that my example is a case of "approaching either party". I would think that for dating to occur, both parties would have to be approached. I seem to have misunderstood your original post. Apologies. -------------------- דעו מאביכם כי לא בוש אבוש שוב אשוב אליכם כי בא מועד
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Aug 14 2008, 01:06 AM
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#9
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I seem to have misunderstood your original post. Apologies. lol It was intentionally left vague. What would you consider to be the line? Is approaching the potential new-Jew ok? What about the already frummie? What about telling either party any details? -------------------- "But it's a dry heat."
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Aug 14 2008, 01:11 AM
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#10
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lol It was intentionally left vague. What would you consider to be the line? Is approaching the potential new-Jew ok? What about the already frummie? What about telling either party any details? Personally I would wait until the person had already converted before mentioning that I have an idea for them. I imagine conversion to be an extremely stressful and overwhelming process after which some may need some "time off". As such, I think that giving someone some time to breath would be ultimately advantageous for any match that may be suggested and/or pursued. Like this both parties would be going out with clear heads and no doubts of the person's religious status and the converter wouldn't feel any additional pressure during a difficult time. -------------------- דעו מאביכם כי לא בוש אבוש שוב אשוב אליכם כי בא מועד
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Aug 14 2008, 05:06 AM
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#11
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I'm not sure how it works exactly, but I am under the impression that the conversion process is slightly easier if the potential convert has someone frum who would be interested in dating them once the conversion takes place since it shows they are okay with the frum lifestyle and they are really interested in living that way.
-------------------- Treat each day as your last; one day you will be right
If a man stands in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? |
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Aug 14 2008, 07:20 AM
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#12
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Group: Members Posts: 16,932 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Occupied Palestine Member No.: 407 |
I never understood this reasoning. Give the person a chance to acclimate and get on stable ground before you start to make shiduchim. I realize that all converts have a long "trial" period where they have to learn about and practice frumkeit, but do you really have to send them right back to "the mikeveh" the second they get out of it??? Let the dust settle, if the shiduch is fitting, it will still be fitting when the time is right.... It's one thing if it just "happens" and the two meet and hit it off, but to DAVKA try to set people in such a position up seems out of line to me and an exceedingly bad idea.
The same thing about BTs. A guy who has been in Ohr Somayach for 2 weeks (or months) has no business going on "shiduchim" IMHO... I always -------------------- [/flirting]
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Aug 14 2008, 07:51 AM
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#13
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I'm not sure how it works exactly, but I am under the impression that the conversion process is slightly easier if the potential convert has someone frum who would be interested in dating them once the conversion takes place since it shows they are okay with the frum lifestyle and they are really interested in living that way. Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I think that a conversion can be an issue if they have someone they want to date/marry. -------------------- Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club. ~~~~~~~~~~ As for me, I would rather be able to love things I cannot have, than to have things I'm not able to love. .~Merrit Malloy IMPVHO |
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Aug 14 2008, 09:35 AM
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#14
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Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I think that a conversion can be an issue if they have someone they want to date/marry. My very, very limited second-hand experience with this is that if the beis din finds out that a potential ger is involved with someone else, it could lengthen and/or cause problems for them. |
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Aug 14 2008, 09:43 AM
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#15
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Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I think that a conversion can be an issue if they have someone they want to date/marry. Thats what I thought which is why I said that I don't totally understand how it works. If the potential convert has someone frum that they are not yet involved with it is different. I learned that from a ger I dated. His mother went through the conversion process much easier since there was a frum guy who was willing to date her. -------------------- Treat each day as your last; one day you will be right
If a man stands in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? |
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Aug 17 2008, 12:54 PM
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#16
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Gabbai Group: Members Posts: 926 Joined: 2-August 06 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 3,153 |
Why any more of a heartbreaker than setting up any shidduch? (Let's assume that there's no doubt in your mind that the conversion will actually take place within a short period of time.) I think it depends on how short the timeframe is. Next week? Next month? Next year? And how can you be sure? I had a friend who was in the process of conversion and while nothing ever seemed off to ME, it took the Beis Din about 4 months to get back to her about the final step. I never understood this reasoning. Give the person a chance to acclimate and get on stable ground before you start to make shiduchim. I realize that all converts have a long "trial" period where they have to learn about and practice frumkeit, but do you really have to send them right back to "the mikeveh" the second they get out of it??? Let the dust settle, if the shiduch is fitting, it will still be fitting when the time is right.... It's one thing if it just "happens" and the two meet and hit it off, but to DAVKA try to set people in such a position up seems out of line to me and an exceedingly bad idea. The same thing about BTs. A guy who has been in Ohr Somayach for 2 weeks (or months) has no business going on "shiduc |