I know that some will take offense to this topic and it's an example of mockery of all that we hold dear, but I gotta ask.

Is it really what the chachomim had in mind, that the ideal situation is that Jews leech off the greater society, benefitting from whatever it offers but refusing to give anything in return? I'm referring to hard line positions in organ donations, or not saving a non-Jewish life. It's one thing if we're a closed society, we don't take and we don't give. But to take and not give? How is that yosher?

I always thought we were supposed to be gracious guests in our host societies, as not to provoke and arouse enmity toward the Israelite Nation. Similarly, we're instructed to pray for the governing bodies of our host societies, that their hearts would be turned toward justice and that they may act favourably towards the people of Israel.

In our living room in Ukraine was a page of the siddur containing the prayer for the welfare of the Communist Party and L.I. Brezhnev. Strategically placed to be discovered by those who would want to know.

I thought so too.

So how does not donating afan organ to a non-Jew, or not giving a non Jew charity or saiaving a nonJewwish life fit in with that?


(I don't know what's going on, my keyboard is going a little wild.)

I find that amazing. Did it actually say yvarech es hacommunist part? Do you still have the siddur?

The issue behind organ donations is that it is not considered kavod hames.

I don't remember the exact text, but I think so, I'm pretty sure. Something to that effect anyway. It was not a siddur, these were pages out of the siddur. Unfortunately I don't think we brought them over with us...

There was s siddur published by the Communist government to "prove" they had religious freedom. See Haim Sloves, the Jewish People, and a Jewish Communist's Allegiances by Annette Aronowicz note 55.
Also, the shull in Moscow had a big prayer for the Soviet Union flanking each side of the bimah. In 1979 the Communists published a siddur called Siddur Ha Shalom.

I'm against it.

More amazing than prayers for the welfare of the Czarist state? More amazing than prayers for the welfare of the pope in papal states? More amazing than prayers for the welfare of the sinful government of the zionist entity?

I meant it was amazing in that it was a artifact of history I'd love to get my hands on. I just saw a Tur Orach Chayim Chelek Alef from 1623 and love looking at stuff like that. Of course it made perfect sense to do it under the Commies.
Regarding the sinful govt of the zionist entity, whatever happened to your reishis tzmichas geulasainu?!

I'm nothing if not flexible?

Seriously though, here's the prayer for the pope:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/melech/jud.jpg

For the record, this bothered me, that there would be a prayer for the clerical head of Catholocism which has been responsible for the deaths of countless Jews from Roman to Byzantium to Crusader to Reindsflissch Massacre to Bloold Libel to modern times...but my oldest son [and keep in mind he was maybe 9 when he suggested this] said that it makes perfect sense:
My son noticed that the Machzor was from Carpentras (even though it was printed in Amsterdam). Carpentras is just outside Avignon with is in the southeast of France, just north of Marseille. The point is it's part of Avignon and my son pointed out to me that Avignon had been a papal state since who knows when. That means the pope was the temporal ruler of Carpentras/Avignon, and hence the prayer for his welfare.

[My son is brilliant].

AFAIK you have to save a non Jewish life. Who says you don't?

The leeching on society part that I don't approve of is this non-work ethic, and if a Jew cheats the IRS and thinks it's a mitzva. Also those guys who just sit on their tuchases in yeshiva to get out of serving in the Israeli army. MH had a cousin who was really chareidi but didn't try and skyve out of the army; he became a Chaplain. I'm sure there must be posts that don't clash with yiddishkeit.

heck, strictly speaking, I don't even have to save a Jewish life if he's not torah true - we're supposed to leave heretics in pits and not help them out.

I've never heard of that and I'm not sure it's true. I'll check with MH and get back to you.

Choshen Mishpat 425:5

wait, what about hatzalah that comes to non-jews as well?



wow. chashuv

(motcha, my daughter just started screaming "cookie monster!" took me a few seconds to chap why )