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Abir Martial Arts, Article on the tradition of Abir and Qesheth
bennoach31
post Aug 14 2008, 09:31 PM
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Check out this article on the history of the Abir warrior tradition. This is the beginning of a true, Torah-centered fighting force for Yisrael in the fear of HaShem.


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Jewcepticon
post Aug 14 2008, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (bennoach31 @ Aug 14 2008, 10:31 PM) *
Check out this article on the history of the Abir warrior tradition. This is the beginning of a true, Torah-centered fighting force for Yisrael in the fear of HaShem.

1) the guy is ashkenazi from Jamaica
2) an ancient jewish martial art doesnt really exist
3) if its legit why did he trademark the name? fishy


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Pure Myrrh
post Aug 14 2008, 10:04 PM
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I don't know about the authenticity of what this guy does or claims, but it seems that he is well-regarded in the martial arts world. In any case, he can't be any worse than the Christian version.....Yeshua-Do! (yes, it actually exists)


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Jewcepticon
post Aug 14 2008, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE (Pure Myrrh @ Aug 14 2008, 11:04 PM) *
I don't know about the authenticity of what this guy does or claims, but it seems that he is well-regarded in the martial arts world. In any case, he can't be any worse than the Christian version.....Yeshua-Do! (yes, it actually exists)

Yes he is well regarded because hes the only non oriental master of something or other (not Abir) which makes no sense because if hes yemenite, wouldnt he be oriental?


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bigtoe
post Aug 14 2008, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (Jewcepticon @ Aug 14 2008, 10:36 PM) *
1) the guy is ashkenazi from Jamaica

Why does it matter to you what he is and where he's from??


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Axolotl
post Aug 14 2008, 10:23 PM
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Like someone said already, he's an Ashkenazi from Jamaica.

He does not look Yemeni *at all* (especially not Habbani) and neither do any of his relatives in photos.

It wouldn't be too hard for someone with his credentials and experience in martial arts to "form" a style of his own and give it an elaborate history, which no doubt a bunch of naive people will follow, especially if they are ashkenazim who are after the "exotic" Yemeni traditions.
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MissShona
post Aug 14 2008, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE (Jewcepticon @ Aug 14 2008, 10:36 PM) *
1) the guy is ashkenazi from Jamaica
2) an ancient jewish martial art doesnt really exist
3) if its legit why did he trademark the name? fishy


1) Jamaica was a part of the British commonwealth up until 1962 (he was born before that by the way)...which means, that you could travel freely between the UK, Canada, even India (up until 1945 or whenever they earned their independence...I forget) without a passport. Oh and also (get this) Israel being that it was a British Mandate. His paternal grandparents were born in "Palestine". Jamaica was not always 90% Black...as it is now. There were times where it was more like 75%. The motto is Jamaica is "Out of Many One People" and it's very true...many Jamaicans are "Black" but have very (very) mixed ancestries. Look at Sean Paul, Naomi Campbell, Tammy Chinn, Michael Manley, Bob Marley; all Jamaicans of mixed ancestries.
2) And your basis for this conclusion is.....??? I fully admit to not being a historian of any shape or form...especially in the realm of military and fighting techniques. However, do you think Jews have...well...since the Maccabees been a nation of weaklings who do nothing but learn Torah, write books, and shlep from place to place? Did they develop nothing else unique in other areas...including self defense and military techniques? Was the Uzi and the M-16 the very first weapon Jews learn to utilize?
3) You trademark things so that no one else can use the word or term and profit from it or create any unauthorized associations. It does not mean that it is your brand new invention or that you are the only one that has rights to it. For example...look at the radio...G. Marconi was not the first person to create a radio. However he took the idea, made it into something useful and applicable, and patented...therefore he received the credit for it. Others challenged him...but since he was the first to patent it (trademark essentially), he was "protected". The weird chronology of it's recognition does nothing to discredit the utility of the radio itself.


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bennoach31
post Aug 14 2008, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE (Axolotl @ Aug 14 2008, 11:23 PM) *
Like someone said already, he's an Ashkenazi from Jamaica.

He does not look Yemeni *at all* (especially not Habbani) and neither do any of his relatives in photos.

It wouldn't be too hard for someone with his credentials and experience in martial arts to "form" a style of his own and give it an elaborate history, which no doubt a bunch of naive people will follow, especially if they are ashkenazim who are after the "exotic" Yemeni traditions.

Well read the article again. This came about as a result of some painstaking research. Look, if he's a phoney, folks would have called him on his BS and run him out of town already.


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Jewcepticon
post Aug 15 2008, 01:44 AM
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QUOTE (MissShona @ Aug 14 2008, 11:23 PM) *
1) Jamaica was a part of the British commonwealth up until 1962 (he was born before that by the way)...which means, that you could travel freely between the UK, Canada, even India (up until 1945 or whenever they earned their independence...I forget) without a passport. Oh and also (get this) Israel being that it was a British Mandate. His paternal grandparents were born in "Palestine". Jamaica was not always 90% Black...as it is now. There were times where it was more like 75%. The motto is Jamaica is "Out of Many One People" and it's very true...many Jamaicans are "Black" but have very (very) mixed ancestries. Look at Sean Paul, Naomi Campbell, Tammy Chinn, Michael Manley, Bob Marley; all Jamaicans of mixed ancestries.
2) And your basis for this conclusion is.....??? I fully admit to not being a historian of any shape or form...especially in the realm of military and fighting techniques. However, do you think Jews have...well...since the Maccabees been a nation of weaklings who do nothing but learn Torah, write books, and shlep from place to place? Did they develop nothing else unique in other areas...including self defense and military techniques? Was the Uzi and the M-16 the very first weapon Jews learn to utilize?
3) You trademark things so that no one else can use the word or term and profit from it or create any unauthorized associations. It does not mean that it is your brand new invention or that you are the only one that has rights to it. For example...look at the radio...G. Marconi was not the first person to create a radio. However he took the idea, made it into something useful and applicable, and patented...therefore he received the credit for it. Others challenged him...but since he was the first to patent it (trademark essentially), he was "protected". The weird chronology of it's recognition does nothing to discredit the utility of the radio itself.

I never brought race in this, yes I know not all Jamaicans are black, Just that this guy isnt Yemenite. Sean Paul is partially of Sephardic decent (the Henriques family)


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p_almonius
post Aug 15 2008, 04:09 AM
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QUOTE (bennoach31 @ Aug 15 2008, 06:53 AM) *
Well read the article again. This came about as a result of some painstaking research. Look, if he's a phoney, folks would have called him on his BS and run him out of town already.

Not impressed by his "research". Or by your idea that if someone gets away with promoting a fantasy for a number of years that it must be true.


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MissShona
post Aug 15 2008, 06:06 AM
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QUOTE (Jewcepticon @ Aug 15 2008, 02:44 AM) *
I never brought race in this, yes I know not all Jamaicans are black, Just that this guy isnt Yemenite. Sean Paul is partially of Sephardic decent (the Henriques family)


I was responding to "1) The guy is Ashkenazi from Jamaica"....it seemed as if your list was enumerating several "problem" points. I see what you are saying now that you explained but it would have been clearer if you would have added ", not a Temaini". My understanding is that his mother is Ashkenazi, and his father is partially both.

Sean Paul's mother was a Chinese Jamaican who was a competitive swimmer (don't know why I brought that up...maybe because of the Olympics tongue.gif ); so he's not Jewish (although several media stories implied that he was).


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Jewcepticon
post Aug 15 2008, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (MissShona @ Aug 15 2008, 07:06 AM) *
I was responding to "1) The guy is Ashkenazi from Jamaica"....it seemed as if your list was enumerating several "problem" points. I see what you are saying now that you explained but it would have been clearer if you would have added ", not a Temaini". My understanding is that his mother is Ashkenazi, and his father is partially both.

Sean Paul's mother was a Chinese Jamaican who was a competitive swimmer (don't know why I brought that up...maybe because of the Olympics tongue.gif ); so he's not Jewish (although several media stories implied that he was).

Yeah, Hes not Jewish but he has Sephardic ancestry (The Henriques family, a famous Sephardic family from holland)


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Pure Myrrh
post Aug 19 2008, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (bennoach31 @ Aug 14 2008, 11:53 PM) *
Well read the article again. This came about as a result of some painstaking research. Look, if he's a phoney, folks would have called him on his BS and run him out of town already.

I dare you to try running this guy out of town....


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