This post really struck me since I've never thought of "our" community (defined as the frum community at large, not the H.com community) as being one of chessed, especially when it comes to acceptance of those with different mindsets and different life-choices. While many of us might personally accept someone who say, doesn't believe in Hashem, would that person be able to find a shidduch being honest about their beliefs? Would their children find their way in a good school? Or do we just define chessed as being generous with scholarships and tzedakah?

Do you think the frum community is one of chessed?

When I read that post, I thought CIC was referring to Bikur Cholims etc...

The example has nothing to do with the question. Not believing in Hashem means that they don't believe in the fundamentals of Judaism but are practicing maybe for social purposes. It's not chessed to say "Go marry a person who really believes, and enjoy fighting about everything." After the marriage, it will come out and have to be dealt with, and probably end in divorce.

Are you saying that someone who doesn't believe in Hashem and has publicized that fact was hurt that frum people, who do believe and live by their belief, don't want to marry them?
They first have to deal with the issue of their belief. If they don't believe because they haven't been able to ask questions, they should ask and ask until they find out. I can recommend some people who can help them in this area by PM. If they don't want to believe, and have openly scoffed Judaism, they shouldn't be looking in the frum community in a system that assumes real Yiddishkeit. They must deal with this issue if they want to have a healthy marriage and family.

It seemed that the post was directed towards a member who struggled with finding their place in frum society. I just used the post to launch a discussion about "chessed" in the frum community. If the post doesn't fit, I'll delete it and rephrase the question.

It seems, Existwhere? that you believe that if a person doesn't believe in Hashem, they should either leave the frum community because they no longer fit in or seek help to deal with their "issues."

If one doesn't believe in HaShem, why on earth would they want, need, or even expect to be accepted into a group that does? There is no logic in that.

Tolerance is not chessed. A Community of Tolerance is not the same thing as A Community of Chessed..

A person in the frum community doesn't just not believe in Hashem. If you've gone to frum schools and lived in the frum community, you know that Judaism is based on Hashem, monotheism.

Not believing is a major issue with Judaism. Emunah is the absolute cornerstone of Yiddishkeit. It is deceptive to enter the shidduch system pretending to be a frum yid and only allow the other side to know once married. Guarantee for a failed marriage, spiritually and emotionally.


A person shouldn't just up and leave the community because they don't believe in Hashem. The first question is, why don't they believe in Hashem? Have they ever asked questions to their satisfaction, and had those questions respectfully and fully answered? If not, than the solution is simple- get them someone who they can comfortably ask.
If they asked and they still don't believe, or they are secretly a scoffer, they definitely shouldn't try to get married to someone who is sincere. There's only so long a human can put on an act.
If everyone knows they don't believe, there is definitely another person of opposite sex with the same problem to marry and be socially observant with.

How's you were born into it and don't want to lose all your friends and family by leaving, besides not having a half decent education that would give any kind of job opportunities?

not any more than many other american communities i've encountered.

i'm with TDP and exist - how is your, Penina, example of (not) chesed? when i hear chesed, i automatically think bikur cholim, gemachim, that kind of stuff.

Blah cubed. That's just what they tell you in BY. If you don't believe you'll get divorced. If you don't believe you'll get turned into a frog... whatever. It's not that major an issue for many people
Haha, like these questions had answers...

Chessed is to frum people I've met what technology is to the Amish.

So that's the question I'm asking I guess... Is chessed just money (i.e. scholarships, gemachim, loans, etc.) or services (bikur cholim, food for kimpeturin, minyanim for mourners saying kaddish, etc.) in our community? Chesed means "kindness," shouldn't acceptance be part of kindness? Your response sort of solidifies that maybe we're too limited in our view of chesed.

In my personal opinion, we are pretty good at providing monetary and service based chessed, but we often forget to provide chessed in terms of our kindness and acceptance to others. While politico is right, we're probably no better than anyone else, as a culture that strives towards chessed, we should try to do better.

YES! Most definitely. People in secular or even other religious communities are shocked when they hear about the chessed done for us by the the frum community.

Tolerance is not chessed. Acceptance is not chessed. We should not accept people who don't believe in Hashem as frum, because emuna is the basis of Judaism. We accept them as human beings, but if they do not believe whatreligious Jews do believe- that there is a Hashem, Creator and Master of this world- they are not frum. This is not a matter of chesed, this a a plain fact.

It's like saying that accepting Reform conversions is a form of chesed. It has nothing to do with chesed, they are not considered Jews without a valid conversion, and will only be Jews with a valid conversion.

(For future reference, this is the definition of acceptance:

1. The act or process of accepting.
2. The state of being accepted or acceptable.
3. Favorable reception; approval.
4. Belief in something; agreement.
5. (Abbr. acpt.)
6. A formal indication by a debtor of willingness to pay a time draft or bill of exchange.
7. A written instrument so accepted.
8. Law. Compliance by one party with the terms and conditions of another's offer so that a contract becomes legally binding between them.
10. It is not the same thing as chessed, kindness.)

can anyone find me a community that does more chessed? of course we have issues and one them is how to deal with problem kids but we a tolerant community and one of unparalleled chessed



Its ALSO that among other things...

Wow, they're turning you into a bad person, existwhere.

OK,. first you say: