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Is Israel Losing Its Democracy?
Is Israel losing its democracy?
Is Israel losing its democracy?
Yes, because of Sharon [ 6 ] ** [30.00%]
Yes, because of the population [ 1 ] ** [5.00%]
Kind of, but not really [ 2 ] ** [10.00%]
No [ 4 ] ** [20.00%]
Other (please explain) [ 7 ] ** [35.00%]
Total Votes: 20
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moses20
post Mar 23 2005, 07:06 PM
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I think that Sharon is certaintly taking Israel down the path of tyranny.
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somethinghiding
post Mar 23 2005, 07:10 PM
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Any democratic leader who does not follow the platform of the party to which he was elected to is causing the country to lose its democracy. Any democratic leader who fires anyone who doesnt agree with him is causing the country to lose its democracy. Any country who's rules don't apply to everyone, is causing itself to lose its democracy. I think israel pretty much fits the bill...


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krumlikeapretzel
post Mar 23 2005, 07:13 PM
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Did Israel ever have a democracy to be lost? imho no. I remember hafganos a loooong time ago when the heilige Israeli police used to beat bachurim to a pulp and the police even entered shuls and yeshivos in Yerushalayim to beat people up. And *those* were the good ol' days.
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hashfanatic
post Mar 23 2005, 07:27 PM
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I'm sad that they seem to be selling their souls down the river and losing their sovereignty in the process.

Then again, Israel has been politically unstable for ages.

These days, it seems to be the ultra right that is burning down the house.


--------------------
"Wrong? What went wrong?" --George W. Bush
"They're taking their shower, now let them drown in it."--Rush Limbaugh
"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."--Barbara Bush
"We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did." --Richard H. Baker (R-Louisiana)
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Chai18
post Mar 23 2005, 08:30 PM
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Israel has never been a "real" democracy in practice, since its inception the State has been in a state of war and the government has the right to limit the freedoms of press and individual rights, just to name a few.


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Kalashnikover_Re...
post Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM
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Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
It was always run by the "elite" who hold all the power, control the media and decide what the people will and will not hear.

They ripped the Judaism away from countless sefardim and blackmailed their parents with starvation and unemployment unless they enrolled them in secular schools.

Basically in Israel we elect a dictator for a number of years and then if we don't like him we vote for another one, the next time around, or the government will fall in the middle.

No one cares about the people.


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krumlikeapretzel
post Mar 23 2005, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM)
Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
It was always run by the "elite" who hold all the power, control the media and decide what the people will and will not hear.

They ripped the Judaism away from countless sefardim
*
Oh, not just Sephardim.
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Dovid
post Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM
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QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM)
Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
*


While Israel is not a constitutional democracy, it is one of the most democratic states on earth. It is a parliamentary democracy based on the British system. While Americans are not familiar with this system, it is still very democratic. For example:

1) The law mandates that parliamentary elections be held at least every four years, and they have been.
2) The Knesset is picked by a representative system. 10% of the vote means 10% of the Knesset seats. This is much fairer than the U.S. where Gerrymandering strips many people, and entire communities of minority citizens, of their representation in Congress.
3) In 1948 Israel was the first country in the world to allow Arab women to vote.
4) There is freedom of speech, (despite the lack of a bill of rights).
5) There is freedom of religion. (Many would argue that the religious factions are too strong, not too weak. After all, there is no civil marriage in Israel.)
6) There is law mandating that every man and women be given respect.
7) Every citizen can appeal directly to the Supreme Court, sitting as the High Court of Justice, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. (You better have a legitimate complaint - and a lack of alternate process; otherwise you'll land up with a hefty legal bill. ) This right is unheard of in the U.S.
8) Ethiopian Blacks have full rights.
9) There is an Arab on the Supreme Court.
10) There is freedom of the press.
These are just a few of the many facets of Israeli democracy.

Anyone who thinks that Israel is not democratic is welcome to take a course on Isaeli civics. If you can read Hebrew - I suggest you look at Amnon Rubinstein's books on Israeli constitutional law.
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mosheshmeal
post Mar 23 2005, 11:20 PM
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What p's me off about israeli democracy, is the fact that the Supreme Court can overide almost any goverment decision. Or so it seems.

mosheshmeal
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krumlikeapretzel
post Mar 23 2005, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM)
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM)
Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
*


While Israel is not a constitutional democracy, it is one of the most democratic states on earth. It is a parliamentary democracy based on the British system. While Americans are not familiar with this system, it is still very democratic. For example:

1) The law mandates that parliamentary elections be held at least every four years, and they have been.
2) The Knesset is picked by a representative system. 10% of the vote means 10% of the Knesset seats. This is much fairer than the U.S. where Gerrymandering strips many people, and entire communities of minority citizens, of their representation in Congress.
3) In 1948 Israel was the first country in the world to allow Arab women to vote.
4) There is freedom of speech, (despite the lack of a bill of rights).
5) There is freedom of religion. (Many would argue that the religious factions are too strong, not too weak. After all, there is no civil marriage in Israel.)
6) There is law mandating that every man and women be given respect.
7) Every citizen can appeal directly to the Supreme Court, sitting as the High Court of Justice, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. (You better have a legitimate complaint - and a lack of alternate process; otherwise you'll land up with a hefty legal bill. ) This right is unheard of in the U.S.
8) Ethiopian Blacks have full rights.
9) There is an Arab on the Supreme Court.
10) There is freedom of the press.
These are just a few of the many facets of Israeli democracy.

Anyone who thinks that Israel is not democratic is welcome to take a course on Isaeli civics. If you can read Hebrew - I suggest you look at Amnon Rubinstein's books on Israeli constitutional law.
*

2. The electoral college system in the US is sick. A representative system exists in all other democracies, and a few non-democracies.
3. Wrong. Naturalized Arab women were voting in many countries before Israel was invented.
4. Very limited. The int'l press can't operate freely, and anti-government books, like Checkpoint Syndrome, are bullied out of publication.
5. If you are Jewish you cannot ask to be buried in a non-Jewish cemetery. If I went off the derech, I wouldn't be able to marry a Cohen in a civil ceremony.
6. There are such laws in many countries. Lip service is always cheap.
10. Same as four no?
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Interested Party
post Mar 23 2005, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM)
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM)
Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
*


While Israel is not a constitutional democracy, it is one of the most democratic states on earth. It is a parliamentary democracy based on the British system. While Americans are not familiar with this system, it is still very democratic. For example:

1) The law mandates that parliamentary elections be held at least every four years, and they have been.
2) The Knesset is picked by a representative system. 10% of the vote means 10% of the Knesset seats. This is much fairer than the U.S. where Gerrymandering strips many people, and entire communities of minority citizens, of their representation in Congress.
3) In 1948 Israel was the first country in the world to allow Arab women to vote.
4) There is freedom of speech, (despite the lack of a bill of rights).
5) There is freedom of religion. (Many would argue that the religious factions are too strong, not too weak. After all, there is no civil marriage in Israel.)
6) There is law mandating that every man and women be given respect.
7) Every citizen can appeal directly to the Supreme Court, sitting as the High Court of Justice, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. (You better have a legitimate complaint - and a lack of alternate process; otherwise you'll land up with a hefty legal bill. ) This right is unheard of in the U.S.
8) Ethiopian Blacks have full rights.
9) There is an Arab on the Supreme Court.
10) There is freedom of the press.
These are just a few of the many facets of Israeli democracy.

Anyone who thinks that Israel is not democratic is welcome to take a course on Isaeli civics. If you can read Hebrew - I suggest you look at Amnon Rubinstein's books on Israeli constitutional law.
*



Sounds nice on paper. The true power is held elsewhere.


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krumlikeapretzel
post Mar 23 2005, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM)
, it is one of the most democratic states on earth.
*
Tell that to the Palestinians in the West Bank who can't vote, or even get a passport.
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hashfanatic
post Mar 23 2005, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (krumlikeapretzel @ Mar 23 2005, 11:27 PM)
QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM)
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 23 2005, 09:37 PM)
Israel has never been anything which remotely resembles a democracy.
*


While Israel is not a constitutional democracy, it is one of the most democratic states on earth. It is a parliamentary democracy based on the British system. While Americans are not familiar with this system, it is still very democratic. For example:

1) The law mandates that parliamentary elections be held at least every four years, and they have been.
2) The Knesset is picked by a representative system. 10% of the vote means 10% of the Knesset seats. This is much fairer than the U.S. where Gerrymandering strips many people, and entire communities of minority citizens, of their representation in Congress.
3) In 1948 Israel was the first country in the world to allow Arab women to vote.
4) There is freedom of speech, (despite the lack of a bill of rights).
5) There is freedom of religion. (Many would argue that the religious factions are too strong, not too weak. After all, there is no civil marriage in Israel.)
6) There is law mandating that every man and women be given respect.
7) Every citizen can appeal directly to the Supreme Court, sitting as the High Court of Justice, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. (You better have a legitimate complaint - and a lack of alternate process; otherwise you'll land up with a hefty legal bill. ) This right is unheard of in the U.S.
8) Ethiopian Blacks have full rights.
9) There is an Arab on the Supreme Court.
10) There is freedom of the press.
These are just a few of the many facets of Israeli democracy.

Anyone who thinks that Israel is not democratic is welcome to take a course on Isaeli civics. If you can read Hebrew - I suggest you look at Amnon Rubinstein's books on Israeli constitutional law.
*

2. The electoral college system in the US is sick. A representative system exists in all other democracies, and a few non-democracies.
3. Wrong. Naturalized Arab women were voting in many countries before Israel was invented.
4. Very limited. The int'l press can't operate freely, and anti-government books, like Checkpoint Syndrome, are bullied out of publication.
5. If you are Jewish you cannot ask to be buried in a non-Jewish cemetery. If I went off the derech, I wouldn't be able to marry a Cohen in a civil ceremony.
6. There are such laws in many countries. Lip service is always cheap.
10. Same as four no?
*


Freedom of the press?

Isn't that rather like suggesting that Michael Jackson is free to get married and settle down?


--------------------
"Wrong? What went wrong?" --George W. Bush
"They're taking their shower, now let them drown in it."--Rush Limbaugh
"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."--Barbara Bush
"We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did." --Richard H. Baker (R-Louisiana)
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Dovid
post Mar 23 2005, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (mosheshmeal @ Mar 23 2005, 11:20 PM)
What p's me off about israeli democracy, is the fact that the Supreme Court can overide almost any goverment decision. Or so it seems.

mosheshmeal
.
*


You're right. The Supreme Court has too much power. And why? Because there is no constitution defining the separation of powers between the Supreme Court and the Knesset. (And why is there no constitution? Because the Charedim are opposed to a Constitution.)
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Dovid
post Mar 23 2005, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (krumlikeapretzel @ Mar 23 2005, 11:31 PM)
QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM)
, it is one of the most democratic states on earth.
*
Tell that to the Palestinians in the West Bank who can't vote, or even get a passport.
*



The West Bank is not Israeli territory under any specific Israeli law.
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Interested Party