Economic Downturn and Kollels

Started by zaaky, Nov 06 2008 12:02 AM

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205 replies to this topic

#61 Jeanette

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:59 AM

zaaky, on Nov 27 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

http://www.kollelguy.com/

Quote

Watching her slave away is heartbraking. This is the only Yom Tov that she makes (unless you count Rosh Hashana) and the signs of her hard work are everywhere. The recipes, menus, baking, cooking, consulting with friends, it goes on and on.

The fact is, these Yom Tov preparations is a killer for her. She comes home from work drained at 5:00 after a full day of teaching. She can only begin to really prepare for Yom Tov after all the kids are sleeping and the supper dishes are cleaned away. She then drags herself again into the kitchen to prepare for the upcoming arrival of the Yom Tov guests.

Somehow, I feel a bit guilty. They are her parents, but why does she get stuck with all the work. I come home after night seder at 10:15, and I am free to go. But her work continues into the wee hours of the night, notwithstanding the fact that she wakes up at 7:00 so she can be out the door on time.

I know that we celebrate matan Torah on Shavuos, but this year - even as a full-time kollel yungerman - a pang of guilt will be hanging over that celebration.

And I am not fully convinced that it is only the yetzer hora�

Wow, just wow.

She only makes ONE Yom Tov per year? and can barely handle it at that?

And her husband comes home at 10:15 and is "free to go"? Free to go where? To bed? Why SHOULDN'T he stay up as late as his wife helping her with the cooking?

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#62 p_almonius

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:26 AM

Jeanette, on Mar 15 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

Why SHOULDN'T he stay up as late as his wife helping her with the cooking?

Because he only feels a bit guilty. I'd love to hear what his wife thinks of the "emotional support" he provides. I suspect it's something along the lines of "not only doesn't the lazy so-and-so lift a finger to help, but he sticks his head into the kitchen every to check up on me. If he's going to be useless, couldn't he at least do it somewhere else?"

I am DEMANDING that the Rabbonim start screaming about this.

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#63 Savannah

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:41 PM

I knew a kollel family in Israel where the husband didn't learn on Friday, but did a lot of the cleaning and other chores. Seeing him wash the kitchen floor was a beautiful reminder that not every kollel family is like the one that Jeanette linked to.

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#64 TheDuncePolice

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:21 PM

.

Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club.

Believe me, every heart has its secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. ~ Robert C. Savage

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#65 Savannah

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:40 PM

TheDuncePolice, on Mar 15 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

Yep. There are actually quite a few kollel guys that are different than the one Jeanette linked.

I sure hope so. Frankly, I hope people are not like any of the people in these posts. For example:

http://www.kollelguy...ffecting-kollel

Quote

Kollel Yungerleit in Lakewood are especially sensitive to high gas prices. Most families live on a fixed income, which does not go up at all with the cost of living. (Lakewood Yeshiva Kollel Checks are $80 a week, and have been that amount for almost 30 years!)

Lakewood kollel families typically do a lot of driving, especially in the summer months as thousands flock to the Catskills to enjoy the bungalows so graciously provided for by their parents and in-laws. A round-trip from Lakewood to the Catskills will cost around $80 for gas and tolls.

In other words, you just spent your entire "paycheck" on just getting to your destination. Maybe vacation somewhere a little closer than the Catskills. Maybe don't vacation anywhere. I thought being in kollel meant sacrificing for the Torah. Not making other people pay for your living standard to be the same as everyone else's.

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#66 TheDuncePolice

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:44 PM

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Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club.

Believe me, every heart has its secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. ~ Robert C. Savage

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#67 Savannah

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:56 PM

TheDuncePolice, on Mar 15 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

That's why I wrote I couldn't even read the posts on that blog. It sickens me to see such attitude. Es kumt meer has never been truer than in the above. Like, we're not particularly sensitive to gas prices because my husband has a job that pays really a minimum and we have a lot of expenses, medical included blah blah blah... The entire blog seems to be about: See? We are Kollel guys and deserve special treatment and someone to keep on giving us because otherwise we are in danger of either collapsing, or leaving kollel.

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Es kumt meer

What does this mean?

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#68 TheDuncePolice

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:57 PM

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Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club.

Believe me, every heart has its secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. ~ Robert C. Savage

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#69 Savannah

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 02:00 PM

TheDuncePolice, on Mar 15 2009, 02:57 PM, said:

Magiah Lee (can't think of a good translation in English other than It's coming to me).

Gotcha, thanks.

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#70 Spiffy

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 02:01 PM

TheDuncePolice, on Mar 15 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

Magiah Lee (can't think of a good translation in English other than It's coming to me).

a sense of entitlement.

And I can anecdotally say I know many, many kollel families not like this.

A Jew without good middos is simply incomplete...

Every age is modern to those that live in it

How do you feel when there's no sun? And how will you be when rain clouds come and pull you down again?

Mmmmm, whatcha say?

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#71 zaaky

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 09:19 PM

http://www.vosizneia...shiva-students/

Mar 20, 2009
`Jerusalem - A heartwarming act of charity was performed by the well known philanthropist Ira Rennert this Pesach. He has donated 10,000 new suits to yeshiva students all over the country, with each yeshiva receiving several suits to pass out to the needy students.

The initiative was suggested by Mr. Rennert's rabbi, Rav Aaron Bina, the rosh yeshiva of Netiv Aryeh in the Old City. He had visited Rav R' Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, who explained to him the rampant deprivation and penury in the Torah world. He mentioned that in one Bnei Brak yeshiva, they are only giving bread and water for breakfast and supper. The administration also asked the students who could eat at home for Shabbos to leave the yeshiva, because of the yeshiva's dire economic state.
Unfortunately, the financial state of many Torah families is not much better than this yeshiva's. The offer of the new suits for Pesach is therefore heartwarming news to many yeshiva students and their families.

Ira Rennert ranks #132 on Forbes Magazine's list of World Billionaires

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#72 Bezalel

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:21 PM

zaaky, on Mar 24 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

`Jerusalem - A heartwarming act of charity was performed by the well known philanthropist Ira Rennert this Pesach. He has donated 10,000 new suits to yeshiva students all over the country . . .

. . . in one Bnei Brak yeshiva, they are only giving bread and water for breakfast and supper.

The gift of suits is a beautiful gesture, but it sounds as though they have more need of food than clothing?

In the U.S., too, there are many problems. I read today that Masbia is expanding from one soup kitchen in Brooklyn to add another two there and one in Queens.

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#73 zaaky

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:00 AM

This article by Rabbi Horowitz originally appeared in Mishpacha Magazine.

http://www.rabbihoro...D...ticle&SID=2

"Dear Rabbi Horowitz:
In my wildest dreams, I never thought I would be writing a letter like this � or that I would be in such a challenging position.

Over the past twenty-seven years, I built a business from scratch and was b�eh very successful financially. Now, I am watching the fruits of my labor disintegrate. Sometimes I feel like I am watching a film of my professional life in reverse � with everything I�ve created unraveling before my eyes. I am finding it difficult to eat and sleep. In fact, I recently started taking sleeping pills to unwind at night. Baruch Hashem, I am blessed with a wonderful wife who is supportive and understanding, but there are so many questions: Should I add to her burden by unloading all my problems on her? Should we tell our children? How about our married children, who we are supporting � what do we tell them? And now with Pesach coming, how can I enjoy Yom Tov with all that is going on in my life? How do I overcome the malaise that is my constant companion? My family is looking to me for guidance; how can I offer them chizuk when I myself am reeling?
Name withheld by request"

The numerous comments were most interesting and centered on the Kollel system.
A number of comments remarked on the midos of young men extorting deals before marriage, and how these young men could justify not supporting their families while the older generation is getting sick with worry.

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#74 zaaky

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 08:35 PM

This is from Country Yossi magazine of April 2009:

http://www.countryyo...ection=magazine

"As the mother of a son and daughter in the shidduch parsha, I am sitting and pondering who is responsible for this terrible predicament in Klal Yisroel. I have come to the conclusion that it is a compilation of the parents, seminaries and rebbeim who collectively have caused this problem..........

....A number of concerned parents have decided to form a group that will try to work with parents who feel the same way about the current crisis. If you have a son who plans on one day going to work or college, or who is currently working or in college, please contact us. Or if you have a daughter who is machshiv Torah but also realizes that her basherte has to have a plan for the future, please send your/his/her thoughts to shidduchelp@gmail.com and we will try to get back to you within a reasonable time frame."

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#75 Bezalel

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 08:40 PM

This single guy in my neighborhood keeps pestering me for a donation for his yeshiva. I tried telling him nicely that I have my own list of organizations that I support and that I'm not interested in adding to the list, but he doesn't want to take no for an answer. He said, "oh, do you support shuls, because yeshivas are more important." I foolishly said that I support an organization that provides food for poor people in the neighborhood, and he quoted someone that money will automatically come to poor people and that therefore it is better to support yeshivot.

Are there any good quotes that I could throw back at him?

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#76 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:58 PM

Bezalel, on May 18 2009, 04:40 AM, said:

This single guy in my neighborhood keeps pestering me for a donation for his yeshiva. I tried telling him nicely that I have my own list of organizations that I support and that I'm not interested in adding to the list, but he doesn't want to take no for an answer. He said, "oh, do you support shuls, because yeshivas are more important." I foolishly said that I support an organization that provides food for poor people in the neighborhood, and he quoted someone that money will automatically come to poor people and that therefore it is better to support yeshivot.

Are there any good quotes that I could throw back at him?

I would tell him mamanofschac, if that if THAT is what they teach him in his yeshiva, it is better that it be closed down and if it is his own mishugas, they obviously aren't teaching him properly......

[/flirting]

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#77 zaaky

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:27 PM

zaaky, on Nov 27 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

For Hamlet it was, "To be or not to be that is the question."
For Kollelguy it is, " To learn to not learn that is the question."
Both have a great deal of anguish.

http://www.kollelguy.com/

Update:
The kollelguy writes that he has left his kollel and will keep us informed about his experiences.
Here's one one his latest posts.
Good luck, kollelguy!

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#78 zaaky

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 06:14 AM

http://www.vosizneia...munity-get-jobs

"Jerusalem - Bank of Israel Governor Stanley Fischer on Monday called on the heads of the ultra-Orthodox sector in Israel to promote employment among Haredi men and women in order to minimize the prevalent poverty among them.

During a conference for the ultra-Orthodox community in Jerusalem, Fischer said that the low employment rate among the Haredi men and women was the root cause of for the high incidence of poverty, higher than any other sector in Israeli society, including the notoriously poor Arab sector.

According to Fischer, 60 percent of the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were defined as poor in 2008, and that number has only grown since. "There is an enormous pool of human resources in the Haredi sector, which, harnessed, could contribute another driving force for growth to the economy, while also minimizing the poverty," he said.

Addressing the general financial situation in Israel, Fischer said that the economy is beginning to display signs of growth over recent months, with exports up in May and June and imports up during last month as well. The Bank of Israel combined index has risen for the first time in 11 months, he added. "

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#79 the Real Adiel

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 07:02 AM

zaaky, on Jul 22 2009, 07:14 AM, said:

http://www.vosizneia...munity-get-jobs

"Jerusalem - Bank of Israel Governor Stanley Fischer on Monday called on the heads of the ultra-Orthodox sector in Israel to promote employment among Haredi men and women in order to minimize the prevalent poverty among them.

During a conference for the ultra-Orthodox community in Jerusalem, Fischer said that the low employment rate among the Haredi men and women was the root cause of for the high incidence of poverty, higher than any other sector in Israeli society, including the notoriously poor Arab sector.

According to Fischer, 60 percent of the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were defined as poor in 2008, and that number has only grown since. "There is an enormous pool of human resources in the Haredi sector, which, harnessed, could contribute another driving force for growth to the economy, while also minimizing the poverty," he said.

Addressing the general financial situation in Israel, Fischer said that the economy is beginning to display signs of growth over recent months, with exports up in May and June and imports up during last month as well. The Bank of Israel combined index has risen for the first time in 11 months, he added. "

So let them work (duh!)

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