[micha]

FYI on the thread wishing Mindy and her son , on Aug 30 2005, 10:47 AM, said:

p.s. did everyone have to create new onlysimchas names so they could post???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, the difference between how people discuss things when they put their own identity "out there" vs. on an anonymous forum is one of the reasons why I (nearly entirely) left h.com. People put more thought into what they write when they know they'll be judged for it. When I needed to cut fora to make time for other things, the difference was a motivator.

Just in case anyone cares.

-mi

--
Micha Berger
micha@aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org
Fax: (270) 514-1507

[Gabbe]

What's your cell phone number?

[cynic]

Micha,
The problem is that in our community there is a serious problem with sharing opinions that don't toe the party line. I could very well share my name, but then I'd lose whatever chance I still have to find a decent shidduch, and more.
It is sad, and stupid, but it is also reality.

[FYI]

I actually feel just the opposite. I feel that a person can express their views more strongly when its anonymous. I am perfectly happy with everyone being anonymous. Of course, if people want to know or tell who they are, I have no problem with that either. (I.e. I'm not against the Dougie's meetup for those who want to show up).

[int]

micha, on Aug 30 2005, 02:00 PM, said:

People put more thought into what they write when they know they'll be judged for it.

You mean when there is a possibility of unpleasant repercussions. Since the greatest punishment in the anonymous world is being kicked off the board [and one can easily come back under a different name], there are virtually no repercussions.

However, if one was immune to any consequences of his speech in real life, then he should have no problem revealing his real name either. For instance, someone may be married (no shidduch worries), have grandchildren (no shidduch, etc. worries for children), have a stable job external to the community (no possibility of anyone in the community affecting that), and so on. Then I conjecture that he'll use his real name and post whatever is on his mind...

[cynic]

FYI, on Aug 30 2005, 02:11 PM, said:

I actually feel just the opposite. I feel that a person can express their views more strongly when its anonymous. I am perfectly happy with everyone being anonymous. Of course, if people want to know or tell who they are, I have no problem with that either. (I.e. I'm not against the Dougie's meetup for those who want to show up).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also want to add that another benefit of being anoymous is the possibility to feel out opinions. I can post that X=GFDGFD, see what people say before I publically go on the record with my opinion of X.

[hashfanatic]

It's not impossible to find out who I am, and I have nothing to hide, but I'm not sure I would publish my personal information here, or on other forums.

I can tell you that if I did choose to, the content of my posts would not vary one iota.

I'm not a believer in placing Hashem on the sidelines, and living in a spirit of fear.

[Gabbe]

I have a stunning theory...
...at least among the older, more mature daters, this is not such a great issue...

[Tova]

micha, on Aug 30 2005, 02:00 PM, said:

FYI on the thread wishing Mindy and her son , on Aug 30 2005, 10:47 AM, said:

p.s. did everyone have to create new onlysimchas names so they could post???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, the difference between how people discuss things when they put their own identity "out there" vs. on an anonymous forum is one of the reasons why I (nearly entirely) left h.com. People put more thought into what they write when they know they'll be judged for it. When I needed to cut fora to make time for other things, the difference was a motivator.

Just in case anyone cares.

-mi

Micha, in response to your post, I agree with you to an extent. Yes, when there is a name or title affixed to one's posting one has to answer to the title or name, whether it be president, rabbi or professor. Simultaneously, when a name or title is used a person may also have to fit into the preconceived box, in order that they fit a certain profile. Alternatively, when the names and titles are cast away you may get more open discussion, but some of it may be a complete farce or fabrication due to the fact that there is no real accountability and people can spout things at will and whim.

Is there is solution? People seemed very concerned about their own thoughts that they attempt to hide under a screenname for hopes that a potential shidduch may (or may not) find out depending on content and ideas expressed. Has paranoia en masse spread to this community? It seems like a rhetorical question, as the evidence has shown this to be accurate. Once someone's identity is out in the open, people can better understand their viewpoints and colored lenses from which they peer. Yes, anonymity does create problems and barriers, no doubt.

[Miketab]

Gabbe, on Aug 30 2005, 02:28 PM, said:

I have a stunning theory...
...at least among the older, more mature daters, this is not such a great issue...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

desperation and tiredness makes people settle for, what was in their eyes, less.

[anavah]

Anyone, Jewish or not can access this website and take information off it for any purpose.
I don't think its a good idea to put personal information on an unsecure site.

[Shoshi]

One thing I find interesting is that people worry if their opinions are known, as a non-conformist, etc., they will not get a "decent shidduch."

This is kind of an interesting idea.
What, after all, is a "decent shidduch."

Maybe if your views were known, you would get a shidduch with someone more like you, another non-conformist.

Or, if you have some stigmatized condition, like you take anti-depressants, maybe you would get a shidduch with someone else who takes anti-depressants. (not the biggest tragedy in the world.)

I just wonder what people are thinking when they feel they will be matched with someone "not decent."

After all, if everyone who diverged from the "party line" one iota is stigmatized in shidduchim, then there would be a lot of "decent" people to choose from as far as shidduchim.

Just an idea.
Comments are welcome.

[notreallyhere]

int, on Aug 30 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

None of the above. I meant exactly what I meant. The way one dresses (as long as it is tznius and appropriate - e.g. not dirty/homeless-like) should not make anyone else assume anything about the person's character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, as I said before, a hat, in today's day and age, is not simply a matter of taste like a sweater. Maybe that's wrong, but that's how it is. Second of all, who said anything about character?

melech, on Today, 03:29 PM, said:

But then it becomes circular reasoning: Someone is frum if she does X. Because that's the definition, it doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's a self fulfilling statement. If she doesn't do X then she's not frum if for no other reason than people have declared observance of X means frumkeit.

It's a symbol. Symbols don't have inherent value, but they come to signify something.

cynic, on Today, 03:31 PM, said:

So you're saying halacha changes? Because my great-great, etc. grandfather did not wear a black hat, yet he was frummer than you are, were and ever will be.

I'm saying is that for better or for worse, whether it's right or wrong, a man's headcovering shows something about that person. It doesn't have to do with halacha changing, it has to do with social rules changing. Maybe in a utopia they don't exist, but the fact is that they do and you can't pretend that the symbols you associate yourself with don't say something about you.

[Torn]

cynic, on Aug 30 2005, 02:04 PM, said:

Micha,
  The problem is that in our community there is a serious problem with sharing opinions that don't toe the party line. I could very well share my name, but then I'd lose whatever chance I still have to find a decent shidduch, and more.
It is sad, and stupid, but it is also reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to think the same until I realized life is too short to worry about what others think... Alas, I'm still single...

[int]

notreallyhere, on Aug 30 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

int, on Aug 30 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

None of the above. I meant exactly what I meant. The way one dresses (as long as it is tznius and appropriate - e.g. not dirty/homeless-like) should not make anyone else assume anything about the person's character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, as I said before, a hat, in today's day and age, is not simply a matter of taste like a sweater. Maybe that's wrong, but that's how it is.

For me, it is a matter of taste. For a logically thinking person, it *ought* to be a matter of taste. The fact that it's not a matter of taste in some circles but rather comes to signify 'something' else, is precisely the problem that we're discussing.

Also you keep saying that it signifies 'something' - well what is that something that you're referring to?

[Sdargant]

int, on Aug 30 2005, 03:58 PM, said:

notreallyhere, on Aug 30 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

int, on Aug 30 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

None of the above. I meant exactly what I meant. The way one dresses (as long as it is tznius and appropriate - e.g. not dirty/homeless-like) should not make anyone else assume anything about the person's character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, as I said before, a hat, in today's day and age, is not simply a matter of taste like a sweater. Maybe that's wrong, but that's how it is.

For me, it is a matter of taste. For a logically thinking person, it *ought* to be a matter of taste. The fact that it's not a matter of taste in some circles but rather comes to signify 'something' else, is precisely the problem that we're discussing.

Also you keep saying that it signifies 'something' - well what is that something that you're referring to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMO the hat signifies one's desire and willingness to conform to certain society. Whatever that means to you- good or bad....

[ChaimYaakov]

Gabbe, on Aug 30 2005, 03:19 PM, said:

Besides for the fact that if you aren't going to eat them, hunting wabbits is just cwuel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But I've hunted foxes without eating them. Is that cruel if the fox dies quickly? And besides look at all the wabbits I save by killing one fox.

[ChaimYaakov]

It is very interesting indeed to think about the pros and cons of being anonymous on a public forum. I can see the advantages and the posters here have described them well but I also can see the advantage of not being anonymous.

Everything that I have posted is what I think and feel. I am not ashamed of any part of who I am including my thoughts, feelings, life experiences etc. Therefore I personally would have no problem with having people know who I am.

One use on this board got my ID right within a couple of weeks me being on. I was not embarrassed since I am who I am and I don't have anything to hide. If someone doesn't like me for who I am then so be it.

Would I post any differently if I were "outed" with my identity being known, no. The only downside would be a greater hesitation in talking about problems that reflect negatively on people in my community as I try very hard not to speak Loshan Horah. Also I would be less prone to express my thoughts on another posters post, such as saying what he or she wrote was idiotic because I wouldn't want to put down somebody in front of other people if we all knew who that person really was.

[adiel]

hey micha,

i loved your post and i could totally see where u are coming from. in my opinion (this is the opinion forum, right?), people have so much more to gain with their anonymity in a properly moderated environment. this means that people can ask the questions in front of the world and get an answer (or more) without worrying about what people will think of them - no one will know. you can ask the questions you are afraid to ask a rebbi. or from GIRLS (yeee haaa). or from anyone. no one will think less of you if they think your question is based on total apikorsus. and since this is a learning environment, apikorsim are allowed to ask their questions in search of the truth. even non-jews and kids and old people can join.

i personally have no problem using my name and not being anonymous. in fact, i do. my name is adiel and my picture is on www.adiel.com and if you want to come fight/stalk/debate/do/kill/hug me, please do. i might have lost out b/c of not being anonymous - hence im an old nebach fattie with no money and no girl, but at least im REAL and i feel comfortable in my own skin.

i used to really enjoy your posts and i wish you would come back and bring life back to this forum which has been taken over by a bunch of punk kids who are pseudo-intellectual wannabe's with a chip on thier shoulder because they think they are frum, when they have no idea on what it means to be a True-Torah Jew.

[Bluelaptop]

ChaimYaakov, on Aug 30 2005, 04:26 PM, said:

Would I post any differently if I were "outed" with my identity being known, no.  The only downside would be a greater hesitation in talking about problems that reflect negatively on people in my community as I try very hard not to speak Loshan Horah. 

But CY. you have not kept that (your location) a secret on this board. As a result, some of us know who you are. (location+name), and the damage has already been done regarding the second point. Not that there was any damage because people read bet. the lines, but the point is people know the place.