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Lakewood Bans Internet


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#1 Torn

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 04:45 AM

Edit: Full takano can be viewed here. It must be filled out and signed by every parent or their child will not be permitted to return to school after sukkos.

As reported here based on the meetings held that are described in the images below.

1. Internet access in the home is only permissible if required for a personís job.
2. Internet access in the home is prohibited if it is only for the purpose of casual use (shopping, airline tickets etc.)
3. Anyone who requires access to perform their jobs will be required to have a Rabbi certify the validity of this need. The Rabbiís certification will be filed with the childrenís schools.
4. Computers without internet access will be required to have software installed which will prevent such access in order to prevent children from connecting them to the internet by the use of external modems, WIFI etc.
5. Children of families that do not comply with the rules will be barred from school in order to protect the other children in the class.

It was stressed that the optimal situation for adults as well as children is to totally avoid the need to access the internet whether at work or at home.

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#2 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:42 AM

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#3 brianna

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:37 AM

This whole thing is so stupid. The internet isn't a 'major threat against our yiddishe kinder's kedusha', it's just technology. I happen to use the internet for 1) hashkfafah.com 2) blogging 3) online shopping 4) college (research as well as e-mailing assignments) 4) personal research on various topics 5) online book/movie reviews and other related stuff. Very harmless. Sure I could watch something dirty if I wanted, but I just don't have that inclination. Not everyone is a sicko that needs to be protected from sin by gedolei lakewood who assume they're in charge of the world! The fact is that the telephone was banned when it first became available as well. The attitude with these gedolim is "oy epis someone will come to do an avairah with this new invention so we'd better ban it". This is tiring and stupid.
Certainly there is no shortage of married, left-wing harlots who do not cover their hair. Although, they're probably busy sacrificing their children to Ba‛al and filing divorce papers. ~ Milton

"Are you including as shomer negiya someone who is sleeping with his girlfriend but not shaking hands with the car dealer?" ~ Moshi

"Some people like their corn flakes soggy, other people get off on repression and guilt." ~ Sweet

Notice of New Policy: I now ask people permission before using their quotes.

#4 the Real Adiel

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:45 AM

This whole thing is so stupid. The internet isn't a 'major threat against our yiddishe kinder's kedusha', it's just technology. I happen to use the internet for 1) hashkfafah.com 2) blogging 3) online shopping 4) college (research as well as e-mailing assignments) 4) personal research on various topics 5) online book/movie reviews and other related stuff. Very harmless. Sure I could watch something dirty if I wanted, but I just don't have that inclination. Not everyone is a sicko that needs to be protected from sin by gedolei lakewood who assume they're in charge of the world! The fact is that the telephone was banned when it first became available as well. The attitude with these gedolim is "oy epis someone will come to do an avairah with this new invention so we'd better ban it". This is tiring and stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It certainly is a major threat, not all children (or adults) are as pious as you. I have a friend who fixes computers in the frum community and he has found some pretty nasty stuff tucked away in the "history" in some VERY frum homes.

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#5 brianna

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:54 AM

It certainly is a major threat, not all children (or adults) are as pious as you. I have a friend who fixes computers in the frum community and he has found some pretty nasty stuff tucked away in the "history" in some VERY frum homes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you accusing me of being pious? :rofl: Oh I assure you that I'm not. The point is that the internet is not inherently evil in any way. People can choose to look at those things if they wish, but it's not required. It's like having a telephone. You can choose to speak lashon hara on it but it's not required. Should all technology that can be used for sin be outlawed? That's ridiculous! Oh and I have no doubt that frum guys watch stuff but whatever. People who feel that this may be an issue for them probably should stay away from the internet. But why should they ruin it for the rest of us?
Certainly there is no shortage of married, left-wing harlots who do not cover their hair. Although, they're probably busy sacrificing their children to Ba‛al and filing divorce papers. ~ Milton

"Are you including as shomer negiya someone who is sleeping with his girlfriend but not shaking hands with the car dealer?" ~ Moshi

"Some people like their corn flakes soggy, other people get off on repression and guilt." ~ Sweet

Notice of New Policy: I now ask people permission before using their quotes.

#6 Bluelaptop

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:58 AM

.
Sleeping Beauty came at 4
Her eyes were filled with tears.
"Oh my," she said, "I overslept
About a hundred years."

(Mr. Cuckoo's Clock Shop)

#7 brianna

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:05 AM

providing satisfying outlets in real life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*coughs on morning orange juice*
Woah is that you? Are you sure you weren't kidnapped by aliens during the night? You're actually considering that outlets might be good?! Hmm...
Certainly there is no shortage of married, left-wing harlots who do not cover their hair. Although, they're probably busy sacrificing their children to Ba‛al and filing divorce papers. ~ Milton

"Are you including as shomer negiya someone who is sleeping with his girlfriend but not shaking hands with the car dealer?" ~ Moshi

"Some people like their corn flakes soggy, other people get off on repression and guilt." ~ Sweet

Notice of New Policy: I now ask people permission before using their quotes.

#8 Bluelaptop

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:06 AM

.
Sleeping Beauty came at 4
Her eyes were filled with tears.
"Oh my," she said, "I overslept
About a hundred years."

(Mr. Cuckoo's Clock Shop)

#9 the Real Adiel

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:09 AM

It certainly is a major threat, not all children (or adults) are as pious as you. I have a friend who fixes computers in the frum community and he has found some pretty nasty stuff tucked away in the "history" in some VERY frum homes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you accusing me of being pious? :rofl: Oh I assure you that I'm not. The point is that the internet is not inherently evil in any way. People can choose to look at those things if they wish, but it's not required. It's like having a telephone. You can choose to speak lashon hara on it but it's not required. Should all technology that can be used for sin be outlawed? That's ridiculous! Oh and I have no doubt that frum guys watch stuff but whatever. People who feel that this may be an issue for them probably should stay away from the internet. But why should they ruin it for the rest of us?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are some people that are unaware of the risks it poses to children and some parents sort of poo-poo the dangers. The internet poses a danger like no other. You can't just say it's like the telephone. It's not.

I have the internet in my house, I probably always will. When my kids hit 7 or 8 I will get a good filtering tool. I think what Lakewood is doing is correct because the parents that want the internet will bring it in anyway, but hopefully because of the "tumul" they will also get filtering software.

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#10 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:49 AM

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#11 The Rabbi

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:04 AM

I think the Internet should ban Lakewood.
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#12 Aristotle

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:06 AM

Information on the Internet is subject to the same rules and regulations as conversation at a bar.
.כלל הדבר, כי ראוי שיהיה השכל בן חורין -מהר"ל בחיד"א

#13 fruminfinity

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:23 AM

while i agree that the internet is evil, ive seen what it does to my brothers, but by forbidding it, now it becomes a novelty, and those kids who will want to rebel will now use the internet for worse things then they might have before. the simple solution: parent controls duh! it can block anything that young yishivish kids couldnt get around..

by the way in my school it was "forbidden" to go on the internet, in the library, and at home only on jewish web sites. imagine our fun/chutzpa with our english teacher when she gave us an online assignment....

and one more thing, wherent they creating an internet provider that was mainly jewish that you couldnt get to anything accept kosher sites?? what happend to that solution?
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#14 Pure Myrrh

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:28 AM

Is there a problem? Certainly. Is this the solution? Certainly not.
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#15 Guest_jake7484_*

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:45 AM

This whole thing is so stupid. The internet isn't a 'major threat against our yiddishe kinder's kedusha', it's just technology. I happen to use the internet for 1) hashkfafah.com 2) blogging 3) online shopping 4) college (research as well as e-mailing assignments) 4) personal research on various topics 5) online book/movie reviews and other related stuff. Very harmless. Sure I could watch something dirty if I wanted, but I just don't have that inclination. Not everyone is a sicko that needs to be protected from sin by gedolei lakewood who assume they're in charge of the world! The fact is that the telephone was banned when it first became available as well. The attitude with these gedolim is "oy epis someone will come to do an avairah with this new invention so we'd better ban it". This is tiring and stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Brianna you realize that everything you just listed would be considered osur in Lakewood, right? Movies, college...

#16 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:46 AM

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#17 The Rabbi

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:57 AM

Is there a problem? Certainly. Is this the solution? Certainly not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the rabbinic establishment is caught between a rock and a hard place. They can't successfully ban it outright because it's so critical for parnasah for people and parnasah apparently overrides almost anything. But filters give too much leeway to the users to actually use judgement so that's out, too. Frankly, I agree with you, and I don't see this as a solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



The rabbinic establishment is clueless on this issue, in no small part because most of them are from before the TV age, much less the Internet.
But they are "dealing" with it much the same way they deal with everything else: black and white. There are no grays here. The only solution is outright banning. And the result of that is widespread noncompliance and even less regard for rabbinic authority than exists. If they had welcomed it but with strict caveats I would have a little more respect.
And anyone who agrees with the ban, cease posting right now.
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#18 Pure Myrrh

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:58 AM

Is there a problem? Certainly. Is this the solution? Certainly not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the rabbinic establishment is caught between a rock and a hard place. They can't successfully ban it outright because it's so critical for parnasah for people and parnasah apparently overrides almost anything. But filters give too much leeway to the users to actually use judgement so that's out, too. Frankly, I agree with you, and I don't see this as a solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are several inherent reasons why a rabbinic ban on the Internet will never work. For starters:
1) The rabbonim do not have sufficient expertise, if even familiarity, with computer and Internet technology (which in any event is progressing at breakneck speed). Even if they do eventually learn something, the kids will always be worlds ahead of them. You can't successfully legislate the unfamiliar, because A) you'll do it wrong, and B) you will be ignored.
2) The Internet is everywhere. Everywhere. Seriously. The rabbonim would sooner be able to ban electricity at this point.
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#19 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:00 AM

.

#20 Pure Myrrh

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:01 AM

What's the inherent difference between internet and tv? Why were the rabbis relatively successful with banning tv?

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TV is entertainment and news. The internet is EVERYTHING.
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