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#41 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:12 AM

According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

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Cop out.

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Not a cop out to them. If they hold one must learn because chayav in talmud torah and its deoraysah and the guys cant learn without eating. I//m not saying I agree just explaining their logic.


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

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Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

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The rosh is only concerned with learning torah working is not a reason not to fast.
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#42 Psychodad

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:14 AM

.

#43 Tova

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:15 AM

According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cop out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not a cop out to them. If they hold one must learn because chayav in talmud torah and its deoraysah and the guys cant learn without eating. I//m not saying I agree just explaining their logic.


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

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The rosh is only concerned with learning torah working is not a reason not to fast.

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What's the rosh's opinion of women fasting?
If they're getting off for the second seder, then why can't they fast? (It's like a half-day-- yeshiva kids who go to school and presumably learn and are over bar/bat mitzvah fast, correct?)
Do they have a big breakfast? Or something small, simply to sustain themselves?
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#44 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:18 AM

The rosh is only concerned with learning torah working is not a reason not to fast.

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Who hires these people?

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Good question

According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cop out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not a cop out to them. If they hold one must learn because chayav in talmud torah and its deoraysah and the guys cant learn without eating. I//m not saying I agree just explaining their logic.


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The rosh is only concerned with learning torah working is not a reason not to fast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's the rosh's opinion of women fasting?
If they're getting off for the second seder, then why can't they fast? (It's like a half-day-- yeshiva kids who go to school and presumably learn and are over bar/bat mitzvah fast, correct?)
Do they have a big breakfast? Or something small, simply to sustain themselves?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This particular yeshiva does not give off second seder. Thats the point-the yeshiva wants them learning every seder. In normal yeshivos where guys fast they get off for second seder.
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#45 accolade

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:18 AM

Not a cop out to them.  If they hold one must learn because chayav in talmud torah and its deoraysah and the guys cant learn without eating.  I//m not saying I agree just explaining their logic.

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Why?
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#46 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:20 AM

Not a cop out to them.  If they hold one must learn because chayav in talmud torah and its deoraysah and the guys cant learn without eating.  I//m not saying I agree just explaining their logic.

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Why?

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I just understand that a guy would not be able to learn well without eating. they need strength. I agree they need to eat to learn a whole day. I don't agree that they don't have to fast so that they could learn.
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#47 accolade

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:24 AM

I just understand that a guy would not be able to learn well without eating.  they need strength.  I agree they need to eat to learn a whole day.  I don't agree that they don't have to fast so that they could learn.

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I think they're deluding themselves and that, in most cases, they'd find wellsprings of strength they didn't know they had until they tried fasting and learning. I feel similarly about women/girls who claim to be too weak to fast with no basis.
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#48 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:26 AM

I just understand that a guy would not be able to learn well without eating.  they need strength.  I agree they need to eat to learn a whole day.  I don't agree that they don't have to fast so that they could learn.

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I think they're deluding themselves and that, in most cases, they'd find wellsprings of strength they didn't know they had until they tried fasting and learning. I feel similarly about women/girls who claim to be too weak to fast with no basis.

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You are wrong- a guy can't fast a whole day and learn a whole day.
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#49 accolade

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:27 AM

You are wrong- a guy can't fast a whole day and learn a whole day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay.
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#50 rashi613

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:01 PM

His rosh yeshiva and the Brisker rav in eretz yisroel hold yeshiva guys don't fast because talmid torah is deoraysa and fasting is deranbanan.

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I really don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. :unsure:

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Additionally, there's not neccessarily a problem with an Issur D'rabbanan pushing off a mitvas aseh min haTorah. Think, for example, why don't we blow shofar when Rosh hashana falls out on Shabbos? Shofar is an aseh min hatorah and carrying is an issur d'rabbanan!!

#51 Daniel

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:09 PM

You are wrong- a guy can't fast a whole day and learn a whole day.

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Sure you can. On YK you spend a 25 hours fasting and davening. You tell me that fasting 25 hours and also having kavanah in your tefilos all day is possible, but fasting 12 hours and just learning isn't? :D

Sorry, these Brisker guys are real weaklings, if you ask me.

#52 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:10 PM

You are wrong- a guy can't fast a whole day and learn a whole day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sure you can. On YK you spend a 25 hours fasting and davening. You tell me that fasting 25 hours and also having kavanah in your tefilos all day is possible, but fasting 12 hours and just learning isn't? :D

Sorry, these Brisker guys are real weaklings, if you ask me.

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Since I'm not a guy I can't swear by it but learning gemara takes the most energy more than davening. You don't have to think too much too daven as you do to learn.
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#53 enigma

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:30 PM

I think they're deluding themselves and that, in most cases, they'd find wellsprings of strength they didn't know they had until they tried fasting and learning. I feel similarly about women/girls who claim to be too weak to fast with no basis.

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This bothers me as well. Before I started working, I never knew how many women don't fast, but now I'm sitting here hungry and half the office is munching. <_< :(
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#54 Moshi

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:36 PM

That is f-d up. They can't learn well without eating, but I'm supposed to sit here thirsty, hungry, with a splitting headache and write computer code?

Forget it, I'm going downstairs to get lunch.

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#55 myaccountname

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:38 PM

This newly married Brisker guy comes home one fast day after shachris and asks his wife for breakfast, she looks at him :wacko: arent you fasting today? No, he answers, I need to learn all day and can't do it when I'm fasting. So being a good wife she makes him a nice breakfast and sits down to eat with him. What are you doing, he asked? Eating with you she answered. No, you can't do that, we're not machmir on the women!
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#56 Daniel

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:44 PM

This newly married Brisker guy comes home one fast day after shachris and asks his wife for breakfast, she looks at him  :wacko: arent you fasting today? No, he answers, I need to learn all day and can't do it when I'm fasting. So being a good wife she makes him a nice breakfast and sits down to eat with him. What are you doing, he asked? Eating with you she answered. No, you can't do that, we're not machmir on the women!

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:D :D :D

#57 prototype

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:59 PM


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about a non-pregnant non-nursing mother with small children to care for?

#58 skifree

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:03 PM


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about a non-pregnant non-nursing mother with small children to care for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No heter for that.
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#59 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:04 PM

.

#60 myaccountname

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:09 PM


According to this guy that told me this-guys need to eat to learn.  They need strength.  It is hard to learn a whole day without eating.  Yeshivos give off second seder normally on fasts.  This rosh holds they should learn and therefor need to eat to shteig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alrighty then what about the work force-- the working people who have to run up and down the stairs at the subway, dart through tourists on the street and work a full day shouldn't need energy to perform at their best? Shteiging doesn't burn calories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about a non-pregnant non-nursing mother with small children to care for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No heter for that.

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Depends whom you ask. Ask Mindy.

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agree with melech

the Bobover Ruv ZT"L was very maikel with regards to fasting even for bucherim even on tisha b'av
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