[kitty]

politico, on Dec 17 2003, 01:57 PM, said:

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 01:45 PM, said:

Also, most of the poeple who try to find a new derech, end up either having charata or return at one point.

do you have any evidence for that claim? i'm wondering how you know that much about "most of the people."

Alrite. Let me re-phrase myself.

Most of the poeple I know. or
Most of the stories I heard about. or
Most of the ones I came across.

[cynic]

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 01:45 PM, said:

Our parents were smarter than we are nowadays. Don't look for a new derech.

Like Chassidus?

[Pazz]

Dina, on Dec 17 2003, 02:01 PM, said:

It is sooo unfortunate when kids aren't happy in their own home.

i know this boy that unfortunately (as TRA says) went from one extreme to the other. ( wearing a cross etc.) Anyway, he was drunk once, and was sitting on the steps of his house and yelling. There was a whole crowd gathered, and then he spotted a neighbor and yelled to him "yeah, you saw how my father hit me and you didn't do anything to stop him!"

is he the lead singer of disturbd????

[cynic]

If somebody is not cut out for such a strict lifestyle, you would rather he be unhappy and eventually (as most often will happen) totally disregard all upbringings as opposed to becoming a more mainstream Jew where he'll be much happier?

[Dina]

Quote

somebody is not cut out for such a strict lifestyle, you would rather he be unhappy and eventually (as most often will happen) totally disregard all upbringings as opposed to becoming a more mainstream Jew where he'll be much happier?

that's upto the certain individual.

[ex-chasidish]

the Real Adiel, on Dec 17 2003, 01:33 PM, said:

It seems like exsatmar went from one extreme to the next, gotto find some middle ground

Whats your basis for calling my "new" derech extreme?

[Pazz]

you guys are all making fools outta yourself..
you know what they say about assuming things...

read between the lines... a s s & u & m e

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i hate stupid people. exsatmar, u rule. so do u reelee love ya !

[gewdgal]

cynic, on Dec 17 2003, 02:19 PM, said:

If somebody is not cut out for such a strict lifestyle, you would rather he be unhappy and eventually (as most often will happen) totally disregard all upbringings as opposed to becoming a more mainstream Jew where he'll be much happier?

If somebody was born to a family that leads sucha life, he is meant to live sucha life. It's not the 'way of life' that's bothering him. It's more than that.

[gewdgal]

Pazz, on Dec 17 2003, 02:46 PM, said:

you guys are all making fools outta yourself..
you know what they say about assuming things...

read between the lines... a s s & u & m e

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i hate stupid people. exsatmar, u rule. so do u reelee love ya !

Assumptions... assumptions. That's an old problem. Problem> well, no. But, isn't this board made to voice our opinions?????

[hashkcoffee]

I came out of hibernation just to emphatically state that I have aboslutely nothing to do with this thread. I dont' know who ex satmar is and I have nothing to add to the discussion that's going on here. thank you.

<back into hibernation>

[cynic]

gewdgal, on Dec 17 2003, 02:50 PM, said:

cynic, on Dec 17 2003, 02:19 PM, said:

If somebody is not cut out for such a strict lifestyle, you would rather he be unhappy and eventually (as most often will happen) totally disregard all upbringings as opposed to becoming a more mainstream Jew where he'll be much happier?

If somebody was born to a family that leads sucha life, he is meant to live sucha life. It's not the 'way of life' that's bothering him. It's more than that.

I'm wondering what the "kosher" way of saying BS is on this board.
Anyway, it's a total load of crud what you're saying. Nothing in life is "meant to lead such a life." We have seichal and bechira for a reason.
Plus, if what you say is true, how can we explain chassidus then? After all, in the 1700s, why change? You were meant to lead the life you were leading.

[Opus]

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 02:05 PM, said:

Alrite. Let me re-phrase myself.

Most of the poeple I know. or
Most of the stories I heard about. or
Most of the ones I came across.

Not the ones I know, heard about, or came across.

[ex-chasidish]

gewdgal, on Dec 17 2003, 02:50 PM, said:

If somebody was born to a family that leads sucha life, he is meant to live sucha life. It's not the 'way of life' that's bothering him. It's more than that.

I am unequivocally opposed to that way of thinking. Has anyone stopped to think what the point of Chassidus is? Better yet, what is the meaning of Chassidus. Isn't the original Chassidus (lifnim meshuras hadin) supposed to be a matter of choice for people who fell they are on the level.

The problem is with people with your way of thinking who have commercialized chassidus and turned it into something it is not.

[kitty]

exsatmar, on Dec 17 2003, 03:06 PM, said:

gewdgal, on Dec 17 2003, 02:50 PM, said:

If somebody was born to a family that leads sucha life, he is meant to live sucha life. It's not the 'way of life' that's bothering him. It's more than that.

I am unequivocally opposed to that way of thinking. Has anyone stopped to think what the point of Chassidus is? Better yet, what is the meaning of Chassidus. Isn't the original Chassidus (lifnim meshuras hadin) supposed to be a matter of choice for people who fell they are on the level.

The problem is with people with your way of thinking who have commercialized chassidus and turned it into something it is not.

Well, first, ex-satmar, what are you planning to become? Yeshivish? Litvish? Modern?

First answer this. Then we can continue.

[ex-chasidish]

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 03:20 PM, said:

Well, first, ex-satmar, what are you planning to become? Yeshivish? Litvish? Modern? 

First answer this. Then we can continue.

None of the above. But why is that so important. I don't like to classify myself as anything but If I had to it would be a mix of modern orthodox, Chareidi, (admiring certain aspects of both the chassidic and litvish worlds) and religious Zionist. I was highly influenced by the works of Rabbis Kaplan, Avraham Korman (hebrew), Kook, Lopez Cardozo, and Kahane.

[ex-chasidish]

Forgot to mention I highly admire the many Sephardic sages and their work, both of the past and the present. (Chida, Ben Ish Chai, Benzion Chai Uziel, R' Yaakov Meir, R' Falagi, Rennaisance Rabbi Yashar Del medigo, Isaac Da Modena -notwithstanding his controversial views- see The Autobiography of a Seventeenth- Century Venetian Rabbi and many others.

[kitty]

exsatmar, on Dec 17 2003, 03:26 PM, said:

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 03:20 PM, said:

Well, first, ex-satmar, what are you planning to become? Yeshivish? Litvish? Modern? 

First answer this. Then we can continue.

None of the above. But why is that so important. I don't like to classify myself as anything but If I had to it would be a mix of modern orthodox, Chareidi, (admiring certain aspects of both the chassidic and litvish worlds) and religious Zionist. I was highly influenced by the works of Rabbis Kaplan, Avraham Korman (hebrew), Kook, Lopez Cardozo, and Kahane.

Quote

None of the above.

My question was gonna be - in response to yours - what is the point of being what you wanna be? (and btw, don't you care about kibbid av/em? bringing nachas for parents or hurting them. And besides, isnt' it better to belong somewhere? I personally knwo somebody. Originally heimish chassidish. Became a bit modern, but still chassidish. Has sucha problem w/shiddichim now. DOES NOT KNW WAT HE WANTS> doen't belong anywhere. He's all "ungezetzed"!

[kitty]

Quote

I was highly influenced by the works of Kook

Unfortunately, you've been reading the wrong material. Poor you

[Opus]

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 03:44 PM, said:

Unfortunately, you've been reading the wrong material.

How dare you?!?

[ex-chasidish]

kitty, on Dec 17 2003, 03:44 PM, said:

Quote

I was highly influenced by the works of Kook

Unfortunately, you've been reading the wrong material. Poor you

This coming from someone who has no clue who Harav Hagaon Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook Zt"l was.

But of course I should be reading Vayoel Moshe, Breuer Zal, and Rav Wasserman Zal....