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#81 Snag

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

How does this answer my post?

It answers that I don't believe external aids to ascertain marital status are necessary.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#82 comfortingsong

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:35 PM

It wouldn't. She wears her rings for hersefl, not for the world, and, FTR, her rings have not stopped people from hitting on her. I'd I didn't trust my wife, the rings wouldn't do much to assuage that.


So, why should you not wear a ring for yourself, too? It's not about trusting. It's about you making a statement that you're married. If she's doing it for others, so should you. If she's doing it to show herself, you should too.

#83 Snag

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:39 PM

So, why should you not wear a ring for yourself, too? It's not about trusting. It's about you making a statement that you're married. If she's doing it for others, so should you. If she's doing it to show herself, you should too.

She's not doing it to show herself, but because culturally wen who are married wear rings. Since in the culture I'm a part of men do not, I don't.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#84 comfortingsong

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:42 PM

She's not doing it to show herself, but because culturally wen who are married wear rings. Since in the culture I'm a part of men do not, I don't.


I don't understand this need to do things because "others do it." And yes, it's a need. Name me one woman who chooses not to be given a wedding band.

#85 rvn2590

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:44 PM

So, why should you not wear a ring for yourself, too? It's not about trusting. It's about you making a statement that you're married. If she's doing it for others, so should you. If she's doing it to show herself, you should too.


Because in Judaism the man acquires the woman, they don't acquire each other. For the man to wear a wedding ring would be a symbol of equality between the husband and wife. That would be immoral.
טובה הארץ מאד מאד

Rav Tal "The evil forces of the world are the leftists who act against sanctity."

#86 comfortingsong

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

Because in Judaism the man acquires the woman, they don't acquire each other. For the man to wear a wedding ring would be a symbol of equality between the husband and wife. That would be immoral.

Snag didn't say anything about his wife being acquired. He said she wears a ring because culturally married women wear rings.

Please tell me that you aren't seriously calling a man who wears a wedding band immoral. I don't think you want to go there.

#87 Belle

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:06 PM

Snag didn't say anything about his wife being acquired. He said she wears a ring because culturally married women wear rings.

Please tell me that you aren't seriously calling a man who wears a wedding band immoral. I don't think you want to go there.


it sounds like he actually thinks it would be immoral because the ring would be a symbol of equality between the husband and wife.
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#88 rvn2590

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:30 PM

Snag didn't say anything about his wife being acquired. He said she wears a ring because culturally married women wear rings.


My statement that the husband acquires the wife and not each other is in reference to the Talmud which teaches this.
טובה הארץ מאד מאד

Rav Tal "The evil forces of the world are the leftists who act against sanctity."

#89 israeli4ever

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:37 PM

I don't understand this need to do things because "others do it." And yes, it's a need. Name me one woman who chooses not to be given a wedding band.

First of all (almost) everyone "needs" to fit in to some extent.
Secondly, he didn't say anyone "needs" to for anything. She chooses to because culturally that's what's done, he chooses not to for the same reason.
Disclaimer: The comments made by this poster do not necessarily represent an actual opinion, they are merely the latest output of an infinite amount of monkeys working on Shakespeare
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#90 Snag

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:00 AM

I don't understand this need to do things because "others do it." And yes, it's a need. Name me one woman who chooses not to be given a wedding band.

First of all (almost) everyone "needs" to fit in to some extent.
Secondly, he didn't say anyone "needs" to for anything. She chooses to because culturally that's what's done, he chooses not to for the same reason.

what he said. furthermore, my wife likes wearing jewelry. i don't. and so on and so forth. if my wife did not want to wear her ring, it would not bother me in the slightest.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#91 comfortingsong

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:42 AM

Because in Judaism the man acquires the woman, they don't acquire each other. For the man to wear a wedding ring would be a symbol of equality between the husband and wife. That would be immoral.

it sounds like he actually thinks it would be immoral because the ring would be a symbol of equality between the husband and wife.


So, if the husband is not wearing it to symbolize that he is being equally "acquired," does that mean that you wouldn't have an issue of it being immoral? - directed at RVN.

#92 Snag

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:27 AM

So, if the husband is not wearing it to symbolize that he is being equally "acquired," does that mean that you wouldn't have an issue of it being immoral? - directed at RVN.

I think some poskim discuss this, and say that I'd the husbands ring is given at the wedding it's problematic, but I'd he gets it later it's ok. This is a very vague and murky memory, though.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#93 comfortingsong

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:47 PM

I think some poskim discuss this, and say that I'd the husbands ring is given at the wedding it's problematic, but I'd he gets it later it's ok. This is a very vague and murky memory, though.


Hm, I gave my husband a wedding band at the wedding, but not during the ceremony, in the yichud room. I guess that's not considered part of the "wedding."

#94 Rentsy

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:34 AM

Hm, I gave my husband a wedding band at the wedding, but not during the ceremony, in the yichud room. I guess that's not considered part of the "wedding."

That's cute!
רמב"ם הלכות תשובה פרק העשירי, הלכה ב

העובד מאהבה - עוסק בתורה ובמצוות והולך במתיבות החוכמה לא מפני דבר בעולם, לא מפני יראת הרעה ולא כדי לירש הטובה, אלא עושה האמת מפני שהוא אמת

הלכה ג

אהבה גדולה יתרה רבה עזה עד מאד, עד שתהא נפשו קשורה באהבת השם ... וכל שיר השירים משל הוא לענין זה

#95 Snag

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:45 AM

Hm, I gave my husband a wedding band at the wedding, but not during the ceremony, in the yichud room. I guess that's not considered part of the "wedding."

Right.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#96 smishu

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:40 AM

why does the world need to know that i'm taken?


It's a physical symbol of commitment. If u don't feel it's necesary that's fine but it's pretty standard for married people ro wear rings in America.

#97 Snag

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:03 AM

It's a physical symbol of commitment. If u don't feel it's necesary that's fine but it's pretty standard for married people ro wear rings in America.

ok, so since neither i nor my wife feel it necessary, and it's not standard in my community, i don't.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#98 Elana

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:37 PM

It's a physical symbol of commitment. If u don't feel it's necesary that's fine but it's pretty standard for married people ro wear rings in America.


while it's standard, it doesn't mean that everyone is wearing one.

On a different subject, one thing I won't do is wear the ring as a widower, assuming I outlive my wife. A number of Gentile men do this as a sign of lasting devotion.


do widows/widowers switch the ring to a different hand after the spouse's death in America? cause in Russia (Europe?) they do (also divorcees)

#99 smishu

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:12 PM

ok, so since neither i nor my wife feel it necessary, and it's not standard in my community, i don't.


Ok, makes sense.

#100 Geshmak

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:17 AM

We do wear wedding rings: Every morning, we wake up, go to shul, put on our Tallis and we wrap our Tefillin in three rings around our fingers while we recite the words of Navi Hoshea:
V’erastich Li l’Olam. V’erastich LI b’tzedek, u’v-mishpat, u’v-chesed, u’v-rachamim. V’erastich Li beh-emunah v’ya-da-as es Hashem. I will betroth you to me forever, etcetera.
I heard the following vort: The Navi is speaking in allegory of Hashem's relationship with Klal Yisroel. But Erusin is a temporary period of engagement (in Talmudic times followed by a separate ceremony one year later of Chupa and Kedushin). Why is Hashem saying to us "V’erastich Li l’Olam, I will betroth you to me forever"
what is so great about that, who wants to be engaged forever, presumably it is a temporary state and you want to get married? The answer relates to the special attitude and behavior that an engaged couple have towards each other, they have a heightened level of consideration for each other, and Simcha of being together, always giving flowers, gifts, etcetera, some of which may chas v'sholom diminish over the years. So Hashem is saying something special to Klal Yisroel, that the wonderful quality of the relationship, attitude, simcha, etc, that an engaged couple have will be with us forever. In that sense "V’erastich Li l’Olam, I will betroth you to me forever" and that is what we married men say every morning when we wrap those rings of Tefillin around fingers. Good vort for sheva brochos to combine with brocha that the couple should always be like that. While the choson will not wear a wedding ring, he should be reminded and take that thought to heart every morning.




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