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Sexual Segregation


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#21 grend123

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:42 AM

Would sitting next to a chussid make you uncomfortable?


No. Why would it?
Klal Yisrael is lucky that I wasn't a Rishon.

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#22 the Real Adiel

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:44 AM

That's their problem, much like if a group of racists feel uncomfortable having a black person in their midst, he doesn't have to sit on the other side of the bus. We live in a real world and I have no sympathy for those who are so fragile that a bus ride in "mixed company" causes them discomfort.

Shows how little you actually know about these guys.

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#23 hashkcoffee

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:46 AM

I have to agree with you on this one.

WOW. :unsure:
thank you.

#24 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:46 AM

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#25 grend123

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:48 AM

chivalry is dead?
human decency is dead?

Chivalry is nice, but when I'm tired and I want to get from point A to point B on a bus, I don't have to be chivalrous. Where's the chivalry on the other end in not making a big deal out of a guy sitting on the wrong end of the bus?

If these people abide by unspoken rule not to sit in mixed company, why the heck is it so hard to live like the Romans when in Rome?

Because it's not Rome. You don't live in a country of Chassidim but in a country of all sorts.

What benefit does he have of sitting with the ladies - besides for being a davkanik, rubbing in their faces that he can defy what's considered acceptable in the community?
would he do something to davka offend people of any other religion in the world?

What benefit do the ladies have in making a big deal about where he sits aside from being davka to a stranger? Would they be davka to any strangers in their community (well, likely yes...).

It's only hip, in, and cool to offend his own brothers, who are different than him.

There is no way you can possibly get hip and cool and segregated buses into the same sentence. I'm not even sure what your point is.

Even non Jewish politicians behave in a respectable manner when visiting our community.

Every politician panders. What's the point? In other communities they kiss babies.

Wow. and I thought anti semitism was on the decline. Guess it's only practiced by jews these days.

That's right, this is clearly anti Semitism. Good catch Mindy.


Shows how little you actually know about these guys.

How does this show how little I actually know? I think you'd be rather shocked to discover where I live.
Klal Yisrael is lucky that I wasn't a Rishon.

Do not feed your grend. It will only encourage it.

Al chet that a polish nobleman from the 18th century would not feel comfortable in my closet.

#26 Amber

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:56 AM

First make it an official policy. Then you can complain about it being broken.

#27 Psychodad

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:57 AM

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#28 Elana

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:57 AM

Personally, I would feel more comfortable if the rules were publicized, for example with a notice on the bus, rather than it being "self understood".


and if it's not posted, would you not follow the self-understood rule?

i personally don't care if it's posted or not, but that's just my personality - if this is how it's done here, i'll do it their way, when among them. you don't have to use that bus if it makes you uncomfortable, you know.

for everyone talking about clear rules - are there any written rules about men and women sitting in different parts of the hall at the chassidishe/yeshivishe simchos. would you (if you are used to mixed sitting) sit on the "wrong" side?

#29 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:02 AM

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#30 the Real Adiel

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:02 AM

How does this show how little I actually know? I think you'd be rather shocked to discover where I live.

Makes no difference where you live. If you could say something like.

I have no sympathy for those who are so fragile that a bus ride in "mixed company" causes them discomfort.


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#31 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:03 AM

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#32 grend123

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:04 AM

Makes no difference where you live. If you could say something like.

How does that show ignorance? It shows a lack of sympathy, but ignorance?
Klal Yisrael is lucky that I wasn't a Rishon.

Do not feed your grend. It will only encourage it.

Al chet that a polish nobleman from the 18th century would not feel comfortable in my closet.

#33 grend123

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:07 AM

for everyone talking about clear rules - are there any written rules about men and women sitting in different parts of the hall at the chassidishe/yeshivishe simchos. would you (if you are used to mixed sitting) sit on the "wrong" side?


That's THEIR simcha. This is a bus - a business - open to the public. I might not go, but I wouldn't ruin their simcha if I came. Much like I wouldn't use chalav stam in your house if you don't use it - it's YOUR house - but I'm not going to not eat Hershey's in front of your kid in public.
Klal Yisrael is lucky that I wasn't a Rishon.

Do not feed your grend. It will only encourage it.

Al chet that a polish nobleman from the 18th century would not feel comfortable in my closet.

#34 Elana

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:12 AM

Excuse me, how did you jump to that as a possible assumption? Did I say in the absence of a sign I would ignore custom? That I would purposefully try to offend people because the rules aren't clearly stated?
Did I say the segregation makes me uncomfortable?

I said I would be more comfortable if the rules were clearly posted and it wasn't "self understood". Any conclusions you draw from that are possibly without foundation.


did i draw any conclusions? i asked a question, did i not?

my last statement was addressed not to you personally, but to all who were saying the rules have to be stated clearly. sorry, i should have mentioned that.

#35 Elana

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:16 AM

I'm not convinced that's a fair analogy.


That's THEIR simcha. This is a bus - a business - open to the public. I might not go, but I wouldn't ruin their simcha if I came. Much like I wouldn't use chalav stam in your house if you don't use it - it's YOUR house - but I'm not going to not eat Hershey's in front of your kid in public.


i'm usually not very good with analogies, as i ahev no time here to think too much about it, so this one might not be the best one. however, i don't think it's very far off. this bus/business is privately owned by the members of that community who are known for these rules. it's pretty much like their house to me.

#36 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:18 AM

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#37 Guest_melech_*

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:21 AM

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#38 Elana

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:34 AM

Indeed I would follow the self-understood rule once it were explained to me. However, I would be more comfortable were the rule not to be self understood but to be posted on the bus.


we are definitely clear now :)

It may be privately owned (I'm at a disadvantage in this discussion because I have no idea what you guys are talking about - my knowledge comes only from this thread) but anybody can climb on board, as opposed to a simchah that is a private affair. Secondly, there are associations with having to move to the back of the bus. Thirdly, at a simchah I doubt anyone would react by yelling at someone on the wrong side of the mechitzah. Fourthly, at a simchah there's a mechitzah, as opposed to an invisible wall of purity on the bus. Fifthly, there's a halachic basis for a segregated simchah.


if there is a halachic basis for a segragated simchah, then my analogy is no good to begin with.
btw, it's all pretty much theoretical for me as well - i've never ridden that bus. we can talk from morning till night about the way the driver behaved, associations and how it's more untznius for women having to march in front of all men to get to their seats (and i would agree with you on those), but that was not the point.

#39 Amber

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:35 AM

It may be privately owned (I'm at a disadvantage in this discussion because I have no idea what you guys are talking about - my knowledge comes only from this thread) but anybody can climb on board, as opposed to a simchah that is a private affair. Secondly, there are associations with having to move to the back of the bus. Thirdly, at a simchah I doubt anyone would react by yelling at someone on the wrong side of the mechitzah. Fourthly, at a simchah there's a mechitzah, as opposed to an invisible wall of purity on the bus. Fifthly, there's a halachic basis for a segregated simchah.

:D Nice.

#40 Torn

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:41 AM

The B110 is owned and operated by Private Transportation Corp under a franchise from the New York City Department of Transportation. As such, by law, the services provided must be consistent with the regs of the NYCDOT and be available to any and all riders wishing to avail themselves of the bus route.

The NYCDOT does not permit sexual segregation on it's franchised routes.

In what may be a clever gimmick the name, Private Transportation Corp, which is printed on the side of the bus (as required by law) connotes exclusivity discouraging non-Jews from boarding possibly even giving them the impression the bus company has a right to prevent them from doing so.
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