[adiel]

I could not believe this news when i heard it:

http://www.smh.com.a...5971398604.html

He was a top guy in the class above my own in Ner Yisroel. He was good looking, strong, and well learned. wth happened at that meeting with the client before he took the plunge from the 69th floor of the Empire state building?


Baruch Dayan Emes.

Levavya will be today at 3:00 in Shomrei Hadas in Brooklyn (14th avenue and 39th st)

[Gabbe]

adiel, on Apr 15 2007, 12:34 PM, said:

Baruch Dayan Emes.

What's dayan ha-emes? Hashem didn't have anything to do with it. He got up and jumped. His decision.

[Pure Myrrh]

adiel, on Apr 15 2007, 12:34 PM, said:

I could not believe this news when i heard it:

http://www.smh.com.a...5971398604.html

He was a top guy in the class above my own in Ner Yisroel. He was good looking, strong, and well learned. wth happened at that meeting with the client before he took the plunge from the 69th floor of the Empire state building?
Baruch Dayan Emes.

Levavya will be today at 3:00 in Shomrei Hadas in Brooklyn (14th avenue and 39th st)

My first question would be, was he pushed out the window?

It, on Apr 15 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

What's dayan ha-emes? Hashem didn't have anything to do with it. He got up and jumped. His decision.

Again, do you know he was not pushed? Or perhaps he was overtaken by anxiety or depression and lost his mind, causing him to take such drastic action against his better judgement?

[Gabbe]

Why would you expect he was pushed out the window? And does depression mean that he didn't have a choice?

[ex-chasidish]

BDE. Reminds me of my own friend whose yahrtzeit is coming up.

This is distubing. There has been a steady increase in the number of frum suicides lately. Something needs to be done about it

[LoveToLaugh]

I'm so sad. I'm so sick.
This is the second time in two years that this has happened to someone from my community who I know.

It doesn't make a bit of sense. It really doesn't. He was the most normal, chilled out guy.
BDE.
May Hashem give his family and friends nechama.

[Gabbe]

Note: I am not disputing that it was a tragedy, etc. I am simply questioning whether we can "blame" Hashem for suicides.

[Elana]

BDE. it's always terrible to hear such news, but when you know the person, it must be even harder.

[ex-chasidish]

It, on Apr 15 2007, 01:06 PM, said:

Note: I am not disputing that it was a tragedy, etc. I am simply questioning whether we can "blame" Hashem for suicides.

That is a question humanity has been grappling with since the dawn of time.

[DQ]

It, on Apr 15 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

What's dayan ha-emes? Hashem didn't have anything to do with it. He got up and jumped. His decision.

These days we don't treat suicides as such Halachkly. It is understood that at the last moment, the suicide 'victim' had regret about taking their life and had done Tshuvah.

It, on Apr 15 2007, 02:06 PM, said:

Note: I am not disputing that it was a tragedy, etc. I am simply questioning whether we can "blame" Hashem for suicides.

Though we know that all that Hashem does is good, we ask Hashem הראנו ה' חסדיך show us your kindness that we will see as kindness.

[Gabbe]

exsatmar, on Apr 15 2007, 02:26 PM, said:

That is a question humanity has been grappling with since the dawn of time.

It seems to me that in defining certain funeral rituals for suicides, halacha has answered that question with a "no." DQ's explanation seems a little self-fulfilling.

[Gabbe]

DeepQuest, on Apr 15 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

Though we know that all that Hashem does is good, we ask Hashem הראנו ה' חסדיך show us your kindness that we will see as kindness.

I never understood that. If HaShem could show His kindness in a way that we would see it as kindness, why would He do it otherwise? t wouldn't be the Ultimate kindness.

[sle123]

I'm so sorry to hear this terrible news.
I just can't (and don't want to) understand why...
and in such a painful manner. *sigh*

[Moshi]

I've met him, and know his family well... wonderful people.... such tragedy..

[adiel]

It, on Apr 15 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

What's dayan ha-emes? Hashem didn't have anything to do with it. He got up and jumped. His decision.

We say BDE anyways.

[YBS]

It, on Apr 15 2007, 02:06 PM, said:

I am simply questioning whether we can "blame" Hashem for suicides.

Saying "BDE" is not about shifting blame. But if you want to question the role of God in suicides, think about what has led a person to commit one. You can't even begin to understand the frame of mind of a person committing suicide, and Who has let him have such a frame of mind?

[LoveToLaugh]

R' Dovid Feinstein said about last year's similar tragedy, that if there was no note and noone was told that he was doing this, we don't consider it a suicide.

See, that is what makes no sense to me -- if it was a regular suicide, there would be a note and it would be done in a less horrific, painful way, don't you think?
Something just really does NOT add up here.....

The levaya is probably ending now, how appropriate that it was raining the entire day.

[Gretchen]

..

[int]

Gretchen, on Apr 15 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

We say BDE because there is nothing else to say.

There is an idea for when there's nothing left to say.

It's called silence.

[Gretchen]

..