[Jappy19]

this might sound like a dumb question. but it very much bothers me why people are "labeled"
can someone please tell me what the difference is?
some people say "chassidish bum" is much worse then "litvish bum"
i want to know the difference between them...... DUH!
i know its easy to say "ya know that guy down the street, he is a chassidish bum."
or "ya know that guy down the street, he is a litvish bum"
what is the difference?
if one is a bum, arent they both equally a BUM?

[geshtunken]

I don't know, why don't you go ahead and define the word BUM for us?

[Jappy19]

Quote

I don't know, why don't you go ahead and define the word BUM for us?

i have no idea. i'm realy not cappable of answering such a question. but i would assume it means someone who is either different then there family. or someone that doesn't conform to the rest.

[Torn]

I had a rebbe who used to say "labels are for shirts".

[Spot]

bum
n.
A tramp; a vagrant.
A lazy or shiftless person, especially one who seeks to live solely by the support of others.
An incompetent, insignificant, or obnoxious person: The batter called the pitcher a bum.
One who is devoted to a particular activity or milieu: a beach bum.

Is this what you meant?

[Belle]

First of all - never heard of a 'litvish bum' in my life.

Secondly, I'd say a bum is someone who is different than his family - but doesnt necessarily give up some parts that render him a complete walking paradox. For example, a chassidish guy keeping the livush, but doing things that are not appropriate. If a chassidish guy would walk into Blockbuster without his gear, I think it's already better.

If a chassidish or litvish person doesnt want to live up to a certain standard, I think they should discard anything that shows they are chassidish/litvish (i.e. shtreimel, hat, suit, white shirt, etc).

[miaminut]

Belle, on Aug 18 2004, 02:23 AM, said:

If a chassidish or litvish person doesnt want to live up to a certain standard, I think they should discard anything that shows they are chassidish/litvish (i.e. shtreimel, hat, suit, white shirt, etc).

Belle, somtimes keeping the lvush will keep them back from doing things and going certain places.

[Pamello]

To add to what Miaminut has said –

Whilst it may seem like a better idea for a chassishe person to remove his distinguishable levush when doing something not so correct, the two issues should really be mutually exclusive.

He is wrong for doing XYZ, but because he does XYZ it does not mean that he should remove his levush and thereby be doing another thing wrong (or maybe not so much wrong but something that will upset his parents, family etc.). Moreover, by wearing ‘the gear’ he shows that he is a proud member and wearer of the uniform and this show and knowledge may, as stated by Miaminut, keep him from going further astray and doing more wrong.

JMVHO

[politico]

Belle, on Aug 18 2004, 02:23 AM, said:

If a chassidish or litvish person doesnt want to live up to a certain standard, I think they should discard anything that shows they are chassidish/litvish (i.e. shtreimel, hat, suit, white shirt, etc).

why? because it makes it tougher to label them if they're dressed the "wrong" way?

[shim]

Among frum Jews the word "bum" essentially means a deviant.

BTW, with regard to the levush there is a famous Gemara in Menachos about a yeshiva bachur who visited a zona but was "smacked in the face" by his tzitzis just before he was with her and prevented him from sinning (there's quite a bit more to that story, including a serious conversation they had, her own conversion to Judaism and the blessing of the bachur's rebbe R' Meir to get married). The Gemara uses this story to illustrate the connection between mitzvas tzitzis and "lo sasuru achrei l'vavchem".

While Chassidishe levush or other types of Jewish dress is not tzitzis and is not a guarantor against un-Jewish behavior (as tzitzis isn't necessarily a guarantor) there can be no doubt that more than a few Jewish men have kept on the straight path because of how they dress.

[Melech]

shim, on Aug 18 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

with regard to the levush

Funny you should say that. Go look up the story of what compelled the Levush (R. Mordechai Yaffe) to write his ten seforim, the Levushim.

[gewdgal]

There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

[sasson]

Quote

gewdgal Posted on Aug 18 2004, 11:05 AM
  There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

OWWW-CH.

[shim]

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:05 AM, said:

There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

Wow. There are different degrees of being a "bum", don't you think? Is the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn the same garbage that a guy who is dealing drugs is?

BTW, Chassidim aren't as a rule "more frum" than non-Chassidim.

[BasKohen]

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:05 AM, said:

There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

Please don't ever, ever get involved w/ kiruv krovim.

[Goober]

I once heard this as a joke... maybe its a one of those 'true jokes'. It goes like this:

Q: Why are there no chassidim that go off the derech?
A: Because they first become Litvish.

If Chassidim shed their garb and paraphenallia, yes, they do now look like the reg Litvish population. Its not to say once a chossid always a chosid??? (Y/N???)

Any ways when the question was asked if chasidish bum are worse then Litvish bums, in what way are you refering? In what they do? In how they act? In how far they go?

Worse is a very general word, just as saying some one is 'nice', you have no clue what type of person that is. For example, in shidduchim, the person you call for information says yah "Shprintza" is so so 'nice'. Now what in earths name is that supposed to tell me abt a perspective mate??

[gewdgal]

shim, on Aug 18 2004, 11:10 AM, said:

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:05 AM, said:

There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

Wow. There are different degrees of being a "bum", don't you think? Is the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn the same garbage that a guy who is dealing drugs is?

BTW, Chassidim aren't as a rule "more frum" than non-Chassidim.

Quote

Is the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn the same garbage that a guy who is dealing drugs is?

Since when is a guy who is not in yeshiva considered a bum?

Quote

BTW, Chassidim aren't as a rule "more frum" than non-Chassidim.

For example, a chassidish guy who changes to litvish levush, is called a bum.

Do you get what I'm sayin?

[LoAleinu]

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:29 AM, said:

Quote

BTW, Chassidim aren't as a rule "more frum" than non-Chassidim.

For example, a chassidish guy who changes to litvish levush, is called a bum.

Do you get what I'm sayin?

How does that fit with:

Quote

There is no difference bet. chasdsh and litvish bum. They're all the same garbage. The reason why chassidish bums are called by some 'worse', is because whatever a chassidish guy will do, will anytime be considered worse, since he comes from a more frum background. So whatevr he does, is worse for him than for a litvish guy, obviously since he's more frum.

[shim]

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:29 AM, said:

Quote

Is the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn the same garbage that a guy who is dealing drugs is?

Since when is a guy who is not in yeshiva considered a bum?

I said the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn though, not the guy who isn't in yeshiva. And if you're going to tell me that the guy who warms the bench in yeshiva in between coffee and cigarette breaks isn't considered a bum I'm gonna tell you about this bridge I bought cheap.

As far as adopting Litvishe levush, if you mean putting on a short jacket and a black fedora and such a boy is considered a bum then we really need help. Yes, I know that his family and social circle may not see it that way. But non Chassidim do not call such boys bums. A "Chassidishe bum" usually refers to the Chassidishe guys who go to movies etc.

[gewdgal]

shim, on Aug 18 2004, 11:48 AM, said:

gewdgal, on Aug 18 2004, 11:29 AM, said:

Quote

Is the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn the same garbage that a guy who is dealing drugs is?

Since when is a guy who is not in yeshiva considered a bum?

I said the guy in yeshiva who doesn't learn though, not the guy who isn't in yeshiva. And if you're going to tell me that the guy who warms the bench in yeshiva in between coffee and cigarette breaks isn't considered a bum I'm gonna tell you about this bridge I bought cheap.

As far as adopting Litvishe levush, if you mean putting on a short jacket and a black fedora and such a boy is considered a bum then we really need help. Yes, I know that his family and social circle may not see it that way. But non Chassidim do not call such boys bums. A "Chassidishe bum" usually refers to the Chassidishe guys who go to movies etc.

Quote

A "Chassidishe bum" usually refers to the Chassidishe guys who go to movies etc.

Also.

But also a guy who changes levush, where, of course, once he changes, that's probably not the only thing he'd done.