[accolade]

I recently discovered that someone I've known for a while does this. The children involved are age 2 and 4.

I assume it's not typical in Jewish homes mainly because of the practicalities of how one would work it around Taharas haMishpacha. ("This week we'll all sleep in the family bed but next week Mommy will sleep on the couch.")

So, let's assume the discussion is purely theoretical. Do you love the idea? Hate it?

Discuss™.

[brianna]

As usual I have an opinion, but I'm not a parent.

[accolade]

brianna, on Oct 26 2008, 03:38 AM, said:

As usual I have an opinion, but I'm not a parent.

This thread is not just for parents.

[brianna]

Okay then. When I have kids, I will not allow them to sleep in my bed as a habit. If a kid is sick at age five and needs to snuggle, fine. In fact, even at the infant stage I may have a bassinet next to the bed, but sleeping inside the bed will not be allowed.

This rule will benefit all parties involved. The children will learn to sleep in their own beds from the start instead of being rudely thrown out of mommy and daddy's bed at age three or four (this happens in some households). The parents will be able to maintain some semblance of peace - and perhaps a sex life too. The marital bed should be for parents to sleep in. It is not the family bed, nor should it be.

[lyric]

I believe in co sleeping with a small baby when the mother is nursing through the night. I know this is controversial but the scaremongers put new parents off what can be a very safe practise with certain safety measures in place. However I was never a fan of co sleeping with an older baby/toddler/child, although it can be very comforting for a sick or miserable child. With a small baby, you can get them to sleep in other places but with older children it can become a habit that's hard to break. Children need to know they have their place to sleep and Mommy and Daddy have theirs. I am thinking of one of my grandchildren, now aged 4, who constantly comes into her parents' bedroom at night. If she was allowed into the parental bed there would be no end of it and no privacy for them.

[happyduck1979]

We do not let our daughter spend the night in our room. Sick/bad dreams happen, and she comes in for snuggles or cuddles, and occasionally falls asleep, but she is always taken back to her own bed at some point. (I will say that we have on occasion broken our own rule, the night before and after we made aliya for instance when we were all terrified for instance. Or the night after she had her tonsils out when I fell asleep in her room- but we do not make it a regular practice. ) To me it just seems... to over-complicate other things.

[lyric]

happyduck1979, on Oct 26 2008, 08:00 AM, said:

We do not let our daughter spend the night in our room. Sick/bad dreams happen, and she comes in for snuggles or cuddles, and occasionally falls asleep, but she is always taken back to her own bed at some point. (I will say that we have on occasion broken our own rule, the night before and after we made aliya for instance when we were all terrified for instance. Or the night after she had her tonsils out when I fell asleep in her room- but we do not make it a regular practice. ) To me it just seems... to over-complicate other things.

I agree 100%. A cuddle after a bad dream or when a child is sick, but then straight back to their own bed.

[Shuli]

brianna, on Oct 26 2008, 03:49 AM, said:

Okay then. When I have kids, I will not allow them to sleep in my bed as a habit. If a kid is sick at age five and needs to snuggle, fine. In fact, even at the infant stage I may have a bassinet next to the bed, but sleeping inside the bed will not be allowed.

Co-sleeping with an infant doesn't necessarily lead to having older infants and toddlers sleeping in the bed. There are sound reasons why one might co-sleep with a young infant, including ease of breastfeeding.


I agree with the general consensus though, that once they hit late infancy and toddlerhood, they should be sleeping in their own cribs/beds unless there are extenuated circumstances.

[lyric]

brianna, on Oct 26 2008, 07:49 AM, said:

Okay then. When I have kids, I will not allow them to sleep in my bed as a habit. If a kid is sick at age five and needs to snuggle, fine. In fact, even at the infant stage I may have a bassinet next to the bed, but sleeping inside the bed will not be allowed.

This rule will benefit all parties involved. The children will learn to sleep in their own beds from the start instead of being rudely thrown out of mommy and daddy's bed at age three or four (this happens in some households). The parents will be able to maintain some semblance of peace - and perhaps a sex life too. The marital bed should be for parents to sleep in. It is not the family bed, nor should it be.

That means that when/if you are nursing at night you will have to force yourself to stay awake. If you allow an infant to co sleep, you can lie down, let the baby nurse and you can sleep through the whole thing.

I can assure you Brianna, you'd be amazed at the number of expectant moms in my classes who look horrified at the idea of allowing themselves to fall asleep while their newborns nurse, but go on to do it. It just makes so much sense at 3 a.m. when it's cold and miserable out, rather than sitting up like a martyr, nodding off and praying for it to be over.

[Kalashnikover_Rebbe]

Why do they have to make up ridiculous psychobabble terms for EVERYTHING these days??? I'm against it just because they call it "cosleeping" and make a whole philosophy out of it, instead of just "sleeping in yo momma's bed"

[greentiger]

accolade, on Oct 26 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

I assume it's not typical in Jewish homes...

I beleive it is more common than people usually think. I just think in the frum circles people don't talk about it as much.

[lyric]

Kalashnikover_Rebbe, on Oct 26 2008, 11:22 AM, said:

Why do they have to make up ridiculous psychobabble terms for EVERYTHING these days??? I'm against it just because they call it "cosleeping" and make a whole philosophy out of it, instead of just "sleeping in yo momma's bed"

Cos it's fewer letters and words?

greentiger, on Oct 26 2008, 12:49 PM, said:

I beleive it is more common than people usually think. I just think in the frum circles people don't talk about it as much.

It's extremely common in frum circles too. I think the reason people don't talk about it is that they think they will be frowned upon re the safety angle, nothing to do with frumkeit. People do it, and feel guilty, but they needn't.

[existwhere?]

accolade, on Oct 26 2008, 03:24 AM, said:

I recently discovered that someone I've known for a while does this. The children involved are age 2 and 4.

I assume it's not typical in Jewish homes mainly because of the practicalities of how one would work it around Taharas haMishpacha. ("This week we'll all sleep in the family bed but next week Mommy will sleep on the couch.")

So, let's assume the discussion is purely theoretical. Do you love the idea? Hate it?

Discuss™.

A friend of mine once told me that her whole family does that fairly often. She was in her teens when she told me that. I was and am uncomfortable at the idea, but I know her to be an exceptionally balanced, warm, modest, intelligent human being, with a very unified, caring family, so it doesn't seem to have hurt.
(It's not all in the same bed, they're in sleeping bags.)

I'm uncomfortable with the idea.

[Pamello]

accolade, on Oct 26 2008, 07:24 AM, said:

I assume it's not typical in Jewish homes mainly because of the practicalities of how one would work it around Taharas haMishpacha. ("This week we'll all sleep in the family bed but next week Mommy will sleep on the couch.")

Um, one sleeps in Mummy's bed and one sleeps in Tatty's bed ...

I know people who do this.

Personally my kid is more than welcome in the mornings and for an afternoon nap on Shabbos/Yom tov on occasion.

[Rachel]

According to recent research, SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) risk is increased for infants that share a bed with their mothers. So, aside from other considerations, this is definitely something to think about.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27363259/

Quote

Many moms risk SIDS by sharing bed with baby

Infants should share room, but sleep on their own for safety, doctors say

NEW YORK - Nearly half of mothers participating in the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program are following recommendations on sleeping arrangements for their babies. However, almost one third report sharing a bed with their infant, a known risk factor for sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), new research published in the Journal of Pediatrics shows.
Noting that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends having babies sleep in their own crib in the parents' room, Dr. Linda Y. Fu said, "We would highly recommend that parents follow the recommendations and room share without bed sharing."
Dr. Fu, at the Children's National Medical Center in Washington, DC, is one of the researchers on the study.
Since 1992, when the AAP first stated that infants should be placed on their backs to sleep, the occurrence of SIDS has fallen by half, Fu and her colleagues note in their report. However, rates have plateaued over the past five years, raising concerns about other SIDS risk factors, including bed-sharing, the researchers add.

The AAP recommended in 2005 that babies from birth to age one sleep in the same room as their parents, to make it easier for mothers and fathers to monitor the child, but should not share a bed.

To investigate factors involved in how parents choose a sleeping place for their infants, the researchers looked at 708 mothers of babies up to eight months old who were getting nutritional assistance from WIC, a federal program to help low-income families.
The researchers found that 48.6 percent of mothers reported sharing a room, but not a bed, with their infants; 32.5 percent shared a bed with their child; and 18.9 percent had the baby sleep in his or her own room.

[accolade]

Thanks for all your opinions.

lyric, on Oct 26 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

I believe in co sleeping with a small baby when the mother is nursing through the night. I know this is controversial but the scaremongers put new parents off what can be a very safe practise with certain safety measures in place.

What are those safety measures?

greentiger, on Oct 26 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

I beleive it is more common than people usually think. I just think in the frum circles people don't talk about it as much.

Are you talking about people who have an established family bed and sleep together on principle, every night? Because that's what I'm talking about.

existwhere?, on Oct 26 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

A friend of mine once told me that her whole family does that fairly often. She was in her teens when she told me that. I was and am uncomfortable at the idea, but I know her to be an exceptionally balanced, warm, modest, intelligent human being, with a very unified, caring family, so it doesn't seem to have hurt.
(It's not all in the same bed, they're in sleeping bags.)

That's weird.

Pamello, on Oct 26 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

Um, one sleeps in Mummy's bed and one sleeps in Tatty's bed ...

That's hardly "cosleeping as a family."

[lyric]

accolade, on Oct 26 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

What are those safety measures?

I have seen the research quoted by Rachel and it is skewed. It doesn't mention (1) breastfed v formula fed (2) firm bed v squidgy sofa. Both former options hugely decrease the risk of SIDS.

Safety measures are

1. That neither parent goes to bed drunk or drugged. (even something like cough medicine can make a parent sleep extra deeply.)
2. That neither parent smokes. (not only in the bedroom but anywhere around the baby.)
3. That neither parent is unusually obese.
4. That the room and the baby are not overheated. This means underdressing the baby if he is to share the parental bed with their extra body heat. Ideally he should not be under the parents' covers but have his own little blanket so he can stay cool.
5. If an infant, he should be breastfed. Breastfeeding mothers filmed cosleeping form a C shape around their baby, a kind of nest, protecting them. Formula feeding mothers co sleeping do not do this.

NB I am ONLY talking about cosleeping with a newborn infant (say up to four months), which I think can aid breastfeeding and bonding. I have no particular axe to grind wrt older babies and children.

[accolade]

Thanks.

How can one guarantee they will not suffocate their child? Take all the safety measures you want but I don't believe there's a foolproof way to do this.

[lyric]

accolade, on Oct 26 2008, 03:51 PM, said:

Thanks.

How can one guarantee they will not suffocate their child? Take all the safety measures you want but I don't believe there's a foolproof way to do this.

In general and with all the safety measures as mentioned above in place, parents are spatially aware their baby is in bed and don't roll over onto it. If they sleep unusually deeply or are drunk or drugged their instincts are affected and I would not cosleep.

[accolade]

lyric, on Oct 26 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

In general and with all the safety measures as mentioned above in place, parents are spatially aware their baby is in bed and don't roll over onto it. If they sleep unusually deeply or are drunk or drugged their instincts are affected and I would not cosleep.

There's no guarantee.