whati is cialishow do u know the mg of cialisdoxycycline pediatric doseviagra videa resultsviagra cialis c200buy finasteride online prescriptionhow many days did viagra can useover the counter cialis suptitutescan i take viagra and cialis togetherinsurance coverave for cialiswill levitra make your dick biggerdiet pills tenutelevitra 4cpr riv 10mgpremium generic viagracan i split 10mg cialis in halfdoxycycline cat respiratory infection dose sizecanadian pharmacygeneric viagra reviewswhere i can get viagra in dubaihow long before cialis startswhat are differences between revatio and viagradubai buy kamagra pharmacy onlineviagra uk licenceamerican express overseas levitrawhere to biy large tube lamisil ringwormsmaller dose finasteride50 mg viagra doesnt workviagra rates in indian rupeeuse pump with viagrais clomid an over the counter drug in south africaorlistat 120 onlineviagra power of menprednisone for cats what is it used forzithromax 1 gram oral suspension online canadagiving blood and taking viagraadalat hypertension doseis sunrise tadalafil any goodwhats success rate clomidcialis 20mg in urduterbinafine cream not workingorder periactin pillswhat is cialis and generic cialiswhat is metronidazole intravenous injection bphollywood diet pill weight loss fast efedrahow do i get viagra without seeing a doctorviagra hard adultbuying cialis discountshotwheels viagra mark martinpaxil generic2.5 mg cialis lowest priceseroquel overdose symptomssildenafil uv spektrumcan i take viagra while taking crestorviagra for women ssriwhere can i buy bactrim onlinediscount cialis for saleorlistat safety and efficacycialis repeated erectionroll if viagra in womencan you take half cialis softwhat is prednisone 20mg forcan you use finasteride with viagarametronidazole 500 ml how long it takes to workviagra 4womanviagra sildenafil citrate is 4 men scanadian pharmacy viagraprescription drug flomaxlevitra volume pillscialis 18 yesr oldlexapro 10 mg prescriptionviagra avec ou sans ordonnance en espagnegenuine viagra in the uknizoral shampoo not workingdoes viagra give you an involuntary erectionbuy cialis walmart pharmacycialis in cozumel safewalmart levitra strengthsclomid how to take itatenololo viagracialis store in uaevibramycin missed doseserotonin viagra salewhat to do from an overdose of viagradoes cialis once daily come in a liquid formhow much is 100 milligrams of clomidlisinopril hydrochlorothiazide and taking viagraviagra for men benefitswhere to buy nolvadex us reviewfree maxviagraviagrafor men in mumbaiviagra for lungsviagra kiaser coversbuy gabapentin philippinespurchase viagra in tijuanacialis stomach musclessouth america cialisviagra store in chennaiatenolol interactions viagradoes walmart sale diflucancialis daily 5 mg canadalow cost viagra comcialis difference between viagranatural alternative to viagra in australiadoes cialis have an expiry datelisinopril 5 cost in indiacan viagra affect kidneysviagra in pulmonary edemacialis juicecelexa side effects how long lastviagra access rx.comtadalafilo en mujeresbuy cialis in montreal not on lineviagra discount drugsprice of cialis on walgreenszithromax 500mg 4 doseviagra hypnosisdiabetics diet pillneed to buy brand name propecia without prescriptionbuy cialis grand rapids michigancan viagra be bought over the counter in usviagra no rx neededhow does cialis work after ejucalationindian market viagraviagra side effects for normal personis phenergan safe for kidshow long does cialis 5mg workbuying authentic viagra from singaporemayo clinic tramadol taken with cialiscialis taking foodhow fuckings teen wenn takes viagradoes viagra give you more staminahow much a viagra pillsprocedure for viagra overdoseregais cialislevitra te kooppay in usa for viagrathrombosis generic clopidogrelwhy must you not take two viagrashow quickly cialis worksdoes express script cover viagratadalafil raw powderhow to get a sample of cialiswich tee insted viagralasix where to buyxenical diet pills ukwhat happens if your dog takes cialisviagra ambien giftgeneric name for amoxicillin irelandcialis 10 mg prices at walmart or walgreenkamagra wholesalecan you buy viagra at shoppers drug martwhere can i go in charlottenc to get a viagraviagra bismarcklevitracounteraustraliapropecia how often takehow much does cialis cost costco canadacialis 5mg how long does it take to workwill viagra work up my asshow long levitra stays in your systemviagra advertisement magazinebuy adipex diet pill onlinebuying viagra sameday ukcialis not cumdo you have to have a prescription for propeciacialis 1 800 numbercan cialis and uroxatral be taken togetherdelayed orgasm viagrawil tadalafil prevent premature ejaculationgeneric prescription viagradiflucan class c drugsildenafil pediatric maximum daily doselioresal genericpremature ejaculation viagracan a erection after ejaculation with levitracialis keep going after50mg of viagra equals cialisdoxycycline buy and sent to europewhat side effects does metronidazole causelipitor generic from pfizeris viagra ineffective after expiry datehow to buy my self viagra in singaporedoes cialis make you swim fasterdoes viagra help delay ejaculationcialis soft order thailandviagran pluswhat is the highest mg of prednisone a cat can takeerectile dificulties pillsviagra costo ufficialenascar viagra driverorjinal shop net viagraviagramalaysiaonlinecan i use cobra 150 sildenafil citrate once a dayaspirin helps cialisbuy doxycycline no prescription onlinedoes priligy work forumbuy chinese tiger viagra onlinehow day running escitalopram withdrawal symptomsviagra 10 mg paypalcialis mit paypal einzahlenfinasteride tablets usp 1 mg buygeneric cialis australiawhere cialis manufacturedhow to avoid flushing after eating viagramontelukast sodium buyersbrand cialis prices usado i need a prescription for cialis onlinecan sildenafil cause glaucomaweight loss pills or dietsxenical price per pill in the philippinesviagra sincetopamax not working for migrainesrevatio is it like viagraviagra sydneycialis where to buy new yorkwellbutrin purple pillhow to get best results from cialisfarmaco sildenafil genfarsildenafil misusetaking less than 25mg of viagrapropecia purchase in canadaviagra aus deutschland rezeptfreiground up cialiswanted viagra dealercan i take doxycycline with cialisviagra in kolkata without prescriptiondose adjustment for ive acyclovir in renalwhat is the cost at walgreens for clopidogrel bisulfatecialis for 72hrsdoes viagra keep your erection even after ejaculationviagra and ejculationviagra and cialis over the counterlisinopril drug interactions comviagra xm radio adwhat is cialis street value20mg levitra last how longwhere to but cialiswhere can i buy viagra in athens greecepfizer viagra cheap priceshot blond on cialis adcost of levitra 10mggdoxycycline acne pills onlinelisinopril drug classificationcialis prescribe forbuspirone drug classwhat pregnancy symptoms can you expect after clomidhow much longer does pfizer have a patent on viagracan i buy viagra in spain without prescriptionviagra cost costcolviagra doseringtaking cialis followed by ambiendoes blue cross blue shield insurance cover viagrabuying viagra in dominican republicis it fine to use viagra for no reasonhow long can viagra 100mg stay in your systembefore and after taking viagra20mg levitra how long to be effectiveorlistat capsules cost in indiaomegasvelt diet pillsamoxicillin missed dose infantcialis frank reviewswhat type of viagra i can get in pakistanviagra drug testinghow much longer does viagra make youdoes cialis soviagra in london shopwhere to buy lamisil in singaporecan you buy viagra in peruelvario natural sustituto del viagrawhat is the difference of levitra and viagraawu moch cost cialsand viagra.up all night herbal viagra tablets uksid rosenberg cialislexapro 20mg retail costdo u need a prescription to buy clomiphene in the ukclomid online storexenical prescription weight lossvardenafil 20 mg salewhat is the correct dose of flagyl for diverticulitiscialis dose levelsviagra and when to take itcan you drink on once off dose of zithromaxacquistare levitral onlinedifference between viagra for men and womennizoral everydayamoxicillin for sale no prescription thailandguy on cymbalta commercialgenerix cialis4th day on lexapro 20mggenericviagrarxstrattera with out prescription 40 mgclassification viagracan you overdose on 3 850mg amoxicillin pillsstrokes and cialissingulair sprinkles 4mg what are they forbuy amoxil 500g glaxosmithklinetadalafil 10 mg blister packsstreet value on 100mg viagrabuy diflucan from canada cheapwhat is the peak time for viagraingredienten levitrawhere do they sell viagra in penangcheap viagra 100mg ukcan you get sjs from generic bactrimviagra mexico qualitya viagra dicklevitran dan efeknyacialis prodamamy reid is viagra really neededfreeviagra help you last longerplant viagra can take everydaytook levitra after orgasmviagra for sale xm radioseroquel dissociative identity disordercan you take cialis to last longerany difference between lexapro and genericwhere can buy acyclovir zovirax ukwhich are the best generic viagrasbuy tadalafil in londonwill the diflucan one dose work on nipple thrushstrong viagra next day deliverydoxycycline and birth control pilllevitra 2 10mgpe en vardenafilwhere to buy doxycycline hyclate tab 100mggeneric viagra available online drugstorecanadian retailer for brand viagra and cialisclinic dysfunction erectile in specialize thathow do you get high on viagrawhere can i buy clomid tablets in zambiacan i take clomid 50mg for 4 daysoutbreak after taking levitralexapro going to genericwho is the cuban actor in cialis commercialtruth about generic sildenafilwhy do men without ed take viagragetting viagra klviagra purchase bt mastercarddoes lamisil ointment for toenails worktaking viagra and adderall togethermetronidazole pills and white dischargeoff label uses for cialisbuy doxycycline pills indiawhy is generic lexapro so expensivecan a patient on warfarin use viagara or cialiscialis 5 mg how long to workdaily cialis and hair lossorodispersible viagracialis back pain midviagra topgunwill generic viagra fail a drug testhow long does a viagra ereserotonin vardenafil saledangers of generic propeciatadalafil sublingual e20viagra drug riskscheap generic viagra co uk kamagra oral jelly 100mgpropecia pills costamoxicillina buy europeviagra jakarta over the counterover the counter viagra gncviagra twinsviagra clevelandamoxicillin trihydrate without prescriptionmetroprololtartraat en viagraviagra and trimix togetherviagra cialis uprimaviagra for men hemeopethcan i take 2 cialis 20mgviagra purchase online pakistanmultible ejaculations on viagradoes viagra cure premature ejaculationflomax cialis togetherciprofloxacin ratiopharm 500 mg 3 times a daysild viagralevitra professional vs levitra 40 mghave both which shall i use viagra or cialishow much is viagra selling forcialis or vigaraunicure remedies pvt. ltd.cialisindian viagra keralaviagra loss of erection after ejaculationbest price for levitra 20mgboy taken viagrafoods that act as cialismetronidazole without prescription entericviagra 100mg discountfree catelog for viagrazithromax antibiotic 1dose 2gcialis smaller ejaculationwhere to buy doxycycline for pigswhat herbs are bad with tadalafilside effects drug diflucanpurchase flagyl genericis duloxetine genericcelebrex working outhow much stronger is a 5mg cialis than a 10mglipitor generic reviewwhere can i buy lamisil singaporeviagra in korean pharmacycost of erectile dysfunction injections in ontarioavodart generic side effectserection pill small pinkis cialis sold in irelandgenfar costa rica sildenafilphilippine viagra pricelamisil commercial contestviagra pay through paypalbuy furosemide in usagenerisch levitra 20mg kaufenwhere can i buy nexium in the uk100mm.cialispsychological side effects viagrawhere can i order viagra without prescriptionnexium canada buyis it safe for a woman to take a half of a viagraviagra online pharmacy edcialis usb stick forgotten passwordpredizone and cialislevitra 20 pills onlinebuy cipro antibioticviagra cum tastefemale viagra pills purchase onlineeffects from viagrareviews on viagra professionalhow quick can you loose weight when taking xenicalviagra india mumbaipeak time for cialis blood leveltadalafil manipulado em bhbactrim every other daydoes cialis cause rectal bleedingviagra online vietnamlegal generic cialiswho is the hopping actress in the cialis commercialfake cialis orangewhere to buy viagra in bootsistherereallyagenericviagrahow to use cialis dailyusing cialis and naproxen at the same timeazithromycin 250 mg workslicurici care ia viagrawhat to expect when using viagrapurchase cialis without prescriptionage limitations for cialisviagra sales countries statisticsacyclovir dose newbornviagra generic realdo you ejaculate with viagralevitra mixed cialissildenafil on the nhsviagra ert 100 from indiawhat happens if i take only half of a viagraxenical 120 cost compareside effects thyroid drug synthroidviagra legally ukbest price viagrageneric zithromax pill form inactive ingredientsfast does bactrim ds workcialis half lifeviagra prices tampaviagra condom priceaarp viagrahow to buy viagra over the counter in canadadaily stimulation with cialis after prostatectomydoes viagra cause skin pimple problemshelp cialis tastebuy hcg clomid nolvadexviagra canada best pricedoes viagra help with premature ejeculationcelebrex commercial 2012tadalafil 25wellbutrin how long side effects go awayviagra prescription cost dollarsnexium generic usacan not ejaculate when using cialiscost of nexium pillsis viagra super active betterhow young can i be to take cialisviagra en neuquencialis weight loss silagra cumwithuscomzyvox buyis blackant same as viagracan tylenol be taken with tadalafilwhat is this 5 cent pill that is better than viagrahow long till finasteride pills take to start workingtake a percocet then viagraprice of pfizer viagra in kuwaithow soon should cialis be taken after prostate surgeryalbuterol normal dose rangecanyousmokemarayuanaandusecialiscan i get viagra in tiajuanadeltasone dose pakviagra where to buy over the counter usaviagra for sale neaw zealandformula quimica del sildenafilcialis efektetcialis does it help you go longer2.5 mg cialis appearnace10 year old prednisone prescription is it safe to takecan i split my cialis in halffrom where we can buy viagra in londonhow quickly do you lose weight on strattera
←  Jewish History

Hashkafah.com

»

If not for the persecutions in exile....

Moshi's Photo Moshi 12 May 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?
Quote

existwhere?'s Photo existwhere? 12 May 2009

What do you think?
Quote

DQ's Photo DQ 12 May 2009

Good question.
Quote

shrigala's Photo shrigala 12 May 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?



What kind of persecution? Because at a certain level persecution is not conducive to survival...

One could start by looking at minorities and study the combinations: survival/assimilation - persecution/no persecution. Another way would be to study periods in Jewish history and try to estimate what was the assimilation rate relative to the extent (or the kind) of persecution (weren't there some discussions like this on Hashkafah already?)

I was trying to think about a minority that survived a long time without facing persecutions and I though of Polish Tatars. They were Tatar Muslims who served as mercenaries in Polish/Lithuanian armies in XIVth and XVth century. They were given some land and established a community in North Eastern Poland and Lithuania. I couldn't say whether they suffered no restrictions because of their faith, but they were never really persecuted (at least not in Poland, I'm not sure what happened to those who ended up in USSR). They are still around, though it's a small and probably dwindling community.

It's only five centuries, but I think it's not a bad result for a community that was never very big to begin with and which was "imported" and quite different from the surrounding society.
Quote

Savannah's Photo Savannah 12 May 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?

"Either Jews make kiddush or the goyim will make havdalah."
Quote

shaya_getzl's Photo shaya_getzl 12 May 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?

Probably. The friendlier the host nation, the less was observance intensity.
Quote

existwhere?'s Photo existwhere? 13 May 2009

"Either Jews make kiddush or the goyim will make havdalah."


I always loved that. From R' Chaim of Volozhin iirc.
Quote

artscroll's Photo artscroll 14 May 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?

Without persecution, I'm not sure they would have stayed an exile community.
Quote

offthed's Photo offthed 02 Jun 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?


I must say that is an interesting question. I would have to say that we would not have survived as a religous nation and over time we would not have survived as a nation at all.

Take America as a microcosm for all of Jewish history. In 60 years since our grandparents came over, the tranquil lifestyle we take for granted has caused most if not many of Orthodox Jewry to lose following. We could argue numbers but no one would disagree that we have seen massive assimilation over the past 6 decades.

Multiply that by 10 or 20 and over the past millenia the Jewish people would no doubt be lost if America was founded in the 11th century as we know if today.
Quote

Moshi's Photo Moshi 02 Jun 2009

I must say that is an interesting question. I would have to say that we would not have survived as a religous nation and over time we would not have survived as a nation at all.

Take America as a microcosm for all of Jewish history. In 60 years since our grandparents came over, the tranquil lifestyle we take for granted has caused most if not many of Orthodox Jewry to lose following. We could argue numbers but no one would disagree that we have seen massive assimilation over the past 6 decades.

Multiply that by 10 or 20 and over the past millenia the Jewish people would no doubt be lost if America was founded in the 11th century as we know if today.


Alternatively, one could also say that people left Orthodoxy as a reaction to having grown up in a shtetle, no? Certainly the seeds for leaving traditional observance have been sewn and taken hold WELL before "the last 60 years." There are many causes - other than the tranquil American life - for Jews leaving Orthodoxy in the 20th century.
Quote

Rentsy's Photo Rentsy 02 Jun 2009

I think we would have done fine.
Quote

Monte Cristo's Photo Monte Cristo 13 Sep 2009

I must say that is an interesting question. I would have to say that we would not have survived as a religous nation and over time we would not have survived as a nation at all.

Take America as a microcosm for all of Jewish history. In 60 years since our grandparents came over, the tranquil lifestyle we take for granted has caused most if not many of Orthodox Jewry to lose following. We could argue numbers but no one would disagree that we have seen massive assimilation over the past 6 decades.

Multiply that by 10 or 20 and over the past millenia the Jewish people would no doubt be lost if America was founded in the 11th century as we know if today.


America can't be used an microcosm of all the nations we've been in during Galus. For one it was founded (partially) on elightenment ideals and the level of anti-semitism that existed in America was never as bad as it was in other countries.
Quote

seekinganswers's Photo seekinganswers 28 Sep 2009

Or would the Jews have assimilated quietly over the centuries?


This question is complicated; I don't really understand it. Does it mean, if there were no persecutions against Jewish people, would Jewish people still exist? Wouldn't the population be much higher?


Or, does it mean, if there were no persecutions, would Jewish people who are not in Israel have lost their identity and beliefs and blended into Gentiles?

Also, what does this mean, ""Either Jews make kiddush or the goyim will make havdalah."

Thanks.
Quote

rvn2590's Photo rvn2590 28 Sep 2009

This question is complicated; I don't really understand it. Does it mean, if there were no persecutions against Jewish people, would Jewish people still exist? Wouldn't the population be much higher?


Or, does it mean, if there were no persecutions, would Jewish people who are not in Israel have lost their identity and beliefs and blended into Gentiles?

Also, what does this mean, ""Either Jews make kiddush or the goyim will make havdalah."

Thanks.


Either Jews make kiddush= either Jews live a life separated unto HaShem (holy means separate), or the nations of the world will separate themselves from the Jews by persecuting them. If Jews don't fulfill their mission as G-d's chosen people, then G-d will remove his hand of protection from the Jewish people allowing the persecution which will remind us that as Jews that we have to fulfill our task as Jews and not try to live as if we were "normal" people. havdalah means to distinguish, separate.
Quote

seekinganswers's Photo seekinganswers 29 Sep 2009

Either Jews make kiddush= either Jews live a life separated unto HaShem (holy means separate), or the nations of the world will separate themselves from the Jews by persecuting them. If Jews don't fulfill their mission as G-d's chosen people, then G-d will remove his hand of protection from the Jewish people allowing the persecution which will remind us that as Jews that we have to fulfill our task as Jews and not try to live as if we were "normal" people. havdalah means to distinguish, separate.


Thanks Rvn. I understand now.
Quote

Gabbe's Photo Gabbe 29 Sep 2009

.
Quote

Snag's Photo Snag 29 Sep 2009

When I was in HS one of the Beards was wont to pontificate on the 105th Psalm, which purports to give an account of the praises of our Light and Salvation. The 25th verse in said Psalm describes what happened in Egypt: "He [the Lord] turned their [the Egyptians'] hearts to hate them [the Jews], to plot against His servants."
How, asks the Beard, is this something to praise the Lord about?
I think you can figure out the answer...

i believe that is sourced in the beis halevi.

there is a similar idea from the chasam sofer, who asks why the verse "v'af gam zos bih'yosom b'eretz oyveyhem lo m'astim v'lo g'altim l'chalosom", which would seem to be a verse of nechomo, is included in the tochocho. he explained it to mean that, as an additional curse, when the jews are in the lands of their enemies hashem doen not make them disgusting and repulsive (in the eyes of said enemies, thus allowing them to become close to them), in order to destroy them.

there is another similar idea from rav chaim volozhiner, the details of which escape me at the moment.
Quote

Ezrahite's Photo Ezrahite 01 Oct 2009

Persecution has influenced what's survived and decisions made but persecution per se is not the reason for Jewish survival.

Cleaving to Torah is the reason for the survival and lack of total assimilation.

Peoples to consider:
One example of a people with an apparent common origin that faces distinct persecution and has survived (but in name alone): Gypsies.
They've been around a long time but no one evens knows where they came from. Some are Christian some aren't. Some Gypsies claim they are all from Egypt while others claim India.

We could say 'the Europeans' persecuted 'the Indians' of south and north America and that it hasn't exactly lead to their survival.
Quote

Rentsy's Photo Rentsy 01 Oct 2009

Well, it helps that Rabbinic Judaism is a culture carefully crafted to self-perpetuate.
Quote

seekinganswers's Photo seekinganswers 07 Oct 2009

Persecution has influenced what's survived and decisions made but persecution per se is not the reason for Jewish survival.

Cleaving to Torah is the reason for the survival and lack of total assimilation.


That makes sense.
Quote