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hefsek in minchah


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#1 Moeshah

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 02:29 PM

Can halachically one say ashrei in minchah and then do something else before shmoneh esrei? (Also between shmoneh esrei and tachanun, and tachanun and aleinu.)

#2 Snag

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:41 PM

Can halachically one say ashrei in minchah and then do something else before shmoneh esrei? (Also between shmoneh esrei and tachanun, and tachanun and aleinu.)

one may not be mafsik between s"e and tachanun. i dont remember the halocho with regard to ashrei. a hefsek between tachanun and oleinu is ok.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#3 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:47 PM

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#4 Gabbe

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:45 PM

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#5 Snag

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:15 PM

see orach chaim 93:2 and mishno b'ruro 108:13
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#6 Gabbe

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 12:01 AM

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#7 velvym

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 02:33 AM

I did before posting. How does
לא יעמד להתפלל [...] אלא מתוך שמחה כגון דברי תנחומין של תורה
equal "there is a halacha to rise to the amidah from pesukim?" And if you have to davka say pesukim, how do you explain the next סעיף, which says that you should not daven while engaged in a murky halacha, but while engaged in הלכה פסוקה, and we know from the Gemara that Amoraic statements qualify?

I thought it was interesting to note that the Mishnah Berurah holds that if you daven two shmoneh esres by Mincha to make up for Shacharis, you should say Ashrei before each one. This is, as far as I know, an often forgotten halacha.
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#8 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:34 AM

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#9 Snag

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:36 AM

1. I'm not sure why you're choshesh on klal yisrael to forget an inyan.

choshed.

nor am i sure why forgetting shacharis is a regular occurence. :)
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:42 AM

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#11 Snag

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:45 AM

Fixed, thank you.

:)

aravit

interesting. ive always heard it as 'arvit', but your way makes more sense

As well, it's not just a matter of forgetting shacharit, it's if one was anus. Maybe a lot of people are tending to the needs of the community or the dead.

just this once, you couldnt have used havoro ashkenazis? :p
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#12 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:49 AM

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#13 Snag

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:52 AM

You mean my typo? It's indeed a sheva uner the rei'sh

darn it. why, though? just as the piyut-selection is called ma'arovis.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#14 Moshi

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:38 AM

I did before posting.


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#15 Gabbe

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:03 AM

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#16 Gabbe

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:08 AM

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#17 Snag

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:12 AM

The word for the piyyutim comes from popular lingo, so it's not really a proof of the grammatical correctness of anything.
IIRC, it's a machlokes between between who give a darn about these things.

as an admitted darn-giver, is arvis correct, or should it be arovis?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#18 Gabbe

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:15 AM

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#19 Snag

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:17 AM

I have no idea. I'm not a darn-giver.

darn.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#20 Gabbe

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:18 AM

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