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"Jewish men make the best husbands."


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#1 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:31 PM

I've heard this sentiment expressed many times by various flavors of people. Do you agree or disagree, and why?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#2 Belle

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:47 PM

It's too broad a statement to agree or disagree.
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#3 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:51 PM

It's too broad a statement to agree or disagree.

well, get out your scalpel and de-broaden it! :)
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#4 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:58 PM

On the plus side: Jewish men are generally more intelligent, educated, and have better jobs. They tend not to be alcoholics or as physically abusive as other men.

On the negative side: They are not that good looking and they tend to be passive aggressive wimps.

#5 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:02 PM

On the plus side: Jewish men are generally more intelligent, educated, and have better jobs. They tend not to be alcoholics or as physically abusive as other men.

On the negative side: They are not that good looking and they tend to be passive aggressive wimps.

do you feel that these traits are genetic, or conditioned? (obviously, excepting the "not that good looking" one, with which, btw, i take great issue :angry:)
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#6 Sweet

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:03 PM

On the negative side: They are not that good looking and they tend to be passive aggressive wimps.

Doesn't that make them better husbands for Jewish women?
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#7 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:04 PM

do you feel that these traits are genetic, or conditioned?

Mostly conditioned.

(obviously, excepting the "not that good looking" one, with which, btw, i take great issue :angry:)

:p

#8 Bezalel

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:05 PM

.

#9 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:05 PM

Doesn't that make them better husbands for Jewish women?

I personally find passive-aggressiveness almost impossible to deal with. To me it's even worse than a temper. A temper is scarier, but you can ride out a tantrum. Passive-aggressiveness tends to be all pervasive.

#10 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:06 PM

Mostly conditioned.

so taking the traits you mentioned - better educated/employed, non-abusive, passive aggressive - do you feel that the conditioning is changing? do you think that these things will be true of jewish men in ten years? 20? 50?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#11 int

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:09 PM

I personally find passive-aggressiveness almost impossible to deal with. To me it's even worse than a temper. A temper is scarier, but you can ride out a tantrum. Passive-aggressiveness tends to be all pervasive.


Can you give a quintessential example of passive-aggressiveness? I was always wondering about what the term means exactly and how it manifests itself.

#12 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:10 PM

so taking the traits you mentioned - better educated/employed, non-abusive, passive aggressive - do you feel that the conditioning is changing? do you think that these things will be true of jewish men in ten years? 20? 50?

Barring a major upheaval in society, I can't imagine things will be too different in the future.

#13 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:10 PM

Doesn't that make them better husbands for Jewish women?

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+2 points....
[/flirting]

#14 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:12 PM

Can you give a quintessential example of passive-aggressiveness? I was always wondering about what the term means exactly and how it manifests itself.

I don't know about a quintessential example, but here's one I can think of off the top of my head:

Wife: I can't decide if I want milchigs or fleishigs tonight. What do you want?
Husband: I don't really care.

#15 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:13 PM

Barring a major upheaval in society, I can't imagine things will be too different in the future.

i think said major upheaval has already occurred. when you mentioned better educated/employed, i assume you were talking about the modern/non-frum. in that area, the orientals and indians have already replaced us as the cultures most valuing education. jews seem to have slacked off somewhat, leading one to think that it's more a trait of immigrant communities than any particular ethnic group.

I don't know about a quintessential example, but here's one I can think of off the top of my head:

Wife: I can't decide if I want milchigs or fleishigs tonight. What do you want?
Husband: I don't really care.

that's passive, not neccessarily aggressive. and why is it the husband's decisio more than the wife's?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#16 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:14 PM

I don't know about a quintessential example, but here's one I can think of off the top of my head:

Wife: I can't decide if I want milchigs or fleishigs tonight. What do you want?
Husband: I don't really care.

What SHOULD he say??? "I want a STEAK woman!!" and slap her on the ###???
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#17 int

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:15 PM

I don't know about a quintessential example, but here's one I can think of off the top of my head:

Wife: I can't decide if I want milchigs or fleishigs tonight. What do you want?
Husband: I don't really care.


?? How is that aggressiveness?

#18 Savannah

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

i think said major upheaval has already occurred. when you mentioned better educated/employed, i assume you were talking about the modern/non-frum. in that area, the orientals and indians have already replaced us as the cultures most valuing education. jews seem to have slacked off somewhat, leading one to think that it's more a trait of immigrant communities than any particular ethnic group.

They may be passing us, sort of like the recent "Are Jews going to stop winning Nobel Prizes" threads, but I think it's still a general value and will continue to be a general value.

that's passive, not neccessarily aggressive. and why is it the husband's decisio more than the wife's?

Because she asked.

What SHOULD he say??? "I want a STEAK woman!!" and slap her on the ###???

He could answer the freaking question. If he wants steak, let him say so.

...

Passiveaggressive behavior (negativistic personality trait) is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations.

It is a personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and passive, usually disavowed resistance in interpersonal or occupational situations.

It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible. It is a defense mechanism, and usually only partly conscious.

Signs of passive-aggressive behavior
The book Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man lists 11 responses that may help identify passive-aggressive behavior. [2]

Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others
Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish.
Fear of competition
Fear of dependency
Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone.
Making chaotic situations
Making excuses for non-performance in work teams
Obstructionism
Sulking
Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures.

A passive-aggressive person may not have all of these behaviors, and may have other non-passive-aggressive traits.

Diagnostic criteria (DSM-IV Appendix B)
Passive-aggressive personality disorder was listed as an Axis II personality disorder in the DSM-III-R, but was moved in the DSM-IV to Appendix B ("Criteria Sets and Axes Provided for Further Study") because of controversy and the need for further research on how to also categorize the behaviors in a future edition. As an alternative, the diagnosis Personality disorder not otherwise specified may be used instead. The DSM-IV Appendix B definition is as follows:

A) A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicted by four (or more) of the following:
passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks
complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others
is sullen and argumentative
unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority
expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate
voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune
alternates between hostile defiance and contrition
B) Does not occur exclusively during major depressive episodes and is not better accounted for by dysthymic disorder.



#19 Snag

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:24 PM

They may be passing us, sort of like the recent "Are Jews going to stop winning Nobel Prizes" threads, but I think it's still a general value and will continue to be a general value.

i dunno, but rabbi mitchell wahlberg agrees with you, although he feels that jews are not inherently amarter.

Because she asked.


He could answer the freaking question. If he wants steak, let him say so.

...

so what if he says "i don't know, honey, i don't have a preference either". why is he more culpable than she?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#20 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:24 PM

He could answer the freaking question. If he wants steak, let him say so.

What if he really doesn't care??? :unsure:
[/flirting]




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