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why do Satmar women shave their heads?


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203 replies to this topic

#141 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:13 AM

Cutting off a body part in order to avoid a possible issur is quite extreme. Cutting off the fingers of a potential thief? Chastity belt? Football helmets for men so that they don't cut their payos too short?

There was that story in the Gemara when the Satan came to test someone with a h0tt chick, and he put his own eyes out rather than succumb to her charms....
[/flirting]

#142 sapphire

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:35 AM

I think you misunderstood my statement.



can you elaborate, then?
plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose



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#143 Short

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:28 AM

Not - the bolded.

Viznitz also has this takkanah re: sending kids to their yeshivos, burial, etc?

There was that story in the Gemara when the Satan came to test someone with a h0tt chick, and he put his own eyes out rather than succumb to her charms....

There was a story about a decade ago of a bochur who rather than be pogem his bris, castrated himself...

1500 years ago it might be seen as mesiras nefesh, but in the 21'st century it's seen as mental illness.

The world has changed.
Ask a seismologist why there was a tsunami, don't ask a rabbi. - Moshi

#144 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:29 AM

....

#145 Short

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:31 AM

That, or a similar story, was on h.com, I think 5 years ago.

MH sort-of knows the guy. He is mentally ill.
Ask a seismologist why there was a tsunami, don't ask a rabbi. - Moshi

#146 Red Hare

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:39 AM

Sapphire, why do you keep repeating that "a wife's hair is for her husband"? There actually is no mokor for that statement.
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#147 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:42 AM

Sapphire, why do you keep repeating that "a wife's hair is for her husband"? There actually is no mokor for that statement.

Cut her some slack, her momma must have learned that at Neve :p
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#148 sapphire

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:10 PM

Sapphire, why do you keep repeating that "a wife's hair is for her husband"? There actually is no mokor for that statement.



Melech please find me a mekor. Posted Image
plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose



"All that is thought should not be said, all that is said should not be written, all that is written should not be published, all that is published should not be read."

- Rabbi Menachem Mendel Morgenstern of Tomashov (the Kotzker Rebbe)

#149 YBS

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:46 PM

There was a story about a decade ago of a bochur who rather than be pogem his bris, castrated himself...


IIRC, this question is discussed in a situation, when a woman becomes a nidda...
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#150 Short

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 03:59 PM

IIRC, this question is discussed in a situation, when a woman becomes a nidda...

Huh?
Ask a seismologist why there was a tsunami, don't ask a rabbi. - Moshi

#151 mosheshmeal

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:46 PM

There was a story about a decade ago of a bochur who rather than be pogem his bris, castrated himself...

Apparently there was breslover BT who did that in the Lelover shil in Tzfaniah some years ago. They had to shut down the whole neighborhood sewerage system because he had flushed it down the toilet. I don't think they ever found the member.

1500 years ago it might be seen as mesiras nefesh, but in the 21'st century it's seen as mental illness.

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#152 joshman

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:38 PM

from hirhurim

Women Who Shave Their Heads

By: Rabbi Ari Enkin

There is a custom among many Chassidic communities for married women to shave their heads after marriage. In fact, some Chassidic sources call the practice "one which derives from our holy ancestors…it was a condition for marriage…it is only the 'modern ones' who say that just covering the hair is enough…"[1] Other Chassidic authorities assert that "those who don’t shave their heads should be considered promiscuous."[2] Some Chassidic brides even shave their heads immediately following the chuppa ceremony, while others wait until the following morning.[3] It is customary to give a woman gifts on the occasion of her shaving her head and sources tell me that in Boro Park this custom is often discharged with diamond earrings.[4]

It should go without saying that this practice is not halachically required, and, in fact, it is clear from the Talmud that this custom was never practiced.[5] Moreover, the Talmud itself declares it "repulsive" for a husband to be forced to see his wife without hair.[6] Indeed, since Biblical times, forcing a woman to shave her head was regarded as a punishment.[7] Sefardic women never had the custom of shaving their head.[8] In fact, according to normative halacha it is forbidden for a woman to shave head under the prohibition for a woman to imitate the practices of a man![9] Nevertheless, it is worth exploring the issue and trying to understand how the practice began.

There is some discussion in halachic literature which seems to suggest that a woman's hair might be a forbidden interposition between her body and the waters of the mikva in which she immerses each month.[10] This, however, is clearly an added stringency and is not halachically required. Indeed, one does not find any objection towards Chassidic women who go to the mikva before their wedding (which takes place before they customarily shave their hair) claiming that the immersion was invalid due to the presence of their hair! Additionally, there is a concern that some of a woman's hair might remain on the surface of the mikva water and not be submerged along with the rest of the body.[11] However, it is for reasons such as this that in today's mikvas there is always an attendant present who observes the immersion and ensures that the entire body –including all hairs- were successfully immersed in the mikva. It is also noted that women recovering after childbirth did not always have the opportunity to have their hair cut for quite some time. As such, it was common for even Chassidic women to have long hair when immersing in a mikva for the first time after childbirth.[12]

Some sources attribute the custom of shaving the head to a mysterious passage in the Zohar which seems to suggest that a woman should do so before going to the mikva each month.[13] However, some interpret the passage as simply encouraging women to trim any hair which grew during her nidda period, similar to the practice of cutting the nails before immersion, rather than requiring her to shave her entire head. In any event, this passage is not cited in any of the normative halachic codes as a reason for a woman to shave her head, although it is cited in order to convey the importance for married women not to allow any of their hair to show.[14]

Another explanation for the custom of shaving the head is based on a concern that a woman's hair might become unintentionally exposed from under the wig or other hair covering that she is wearing.[15] There is also a theory that women began shaving their heads in order to deter the rape which was rampant as part of the many pogroms the Jews suffered in Europe. It is even suggested that the custom evolved in order that women not come to violate Shabbat by squeezing out their hair![16]

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef goes to great lengths to prove that shaving all of one's hair is not halachically required nor is hair a forbidden interposition in the mikva.[17] Rabbi Moshe Shternbuch says that the custom has no halachic source and may have been instituted in order to ensure that no hair ever became exposed in any way.[18] A Chassidic woman who marries a non-Chassidic man is required to abide by her husband's wishes in the event that he does not want her to shave her head.[19]


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[1] B'tuv Yerushalayim (Yadler) p. 58. See Hegyonei Haparasha;Vayeishev for an extensive discussion on the issue of married women shaving their heads.
[2] Darkei Teshuva Y.D. 198:91
[3] Minhag Yisrael Torah E.H. 26:33. See Likutei Halachot (kiddushin) E.H. 6:1, and Shulchan Ha'ezer 5:5:7
[4] Tashbetz 3:299, Invei Hagefen 9:171
[5] Eruvin 100b.
[6] Nazir 28b, Shabbat 64b
[7] Devarim 21:12
[8] Darkei Teshuva Y.D. 198:91
[9] O.C. 182:5
[10] Pri Hasadeh 3:188
[11] Minhag Yisrael Torah E.H. 21
[12] Chatam Sofer Y.D. 195
[13] Zohar;Nasso. To read the passage from the Zohar see: http://parsha.blogsp...aving-hair.html
[14] See Be'er Heitev and Biur Halacha to O.C. 75
[15] Minhag Yisrael Torah E.H. 21
[16] Emek Sheila;Vayikra 96
[17] Yabia Omer Y.D. 4:1
[18] Teshuvot V'hanhagot 2:692
[19] Igrot Moshe E.H. 1:59
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#153 mosheshmeal

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:41 PM

That is not exhaustive.

'I'm a woman, Mary. I can be as contrary as I choose.'

~ Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham


#154 Reb Yid

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:45 PM

Women Who Shave Their Heads...

Your point in posting this being?

Possibly to bring out that it is not halacha, I think that's already been established here, its a minhag.

To bring the opinion of a Rabbi who seemingly holds it isn't so important, with all respect I could bring you Rabbis who hold it is.
Disclaimer: All views expressed here are my own humble opinion at the time posted and do not claim to represent any group within Judaism or part thereof, neither do they necessarily represent my own views in the past or future.

#155 TheDuncePolice

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:22 PM

.
Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club.

Believe me, every heart has its secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. ~ Robert C. Savage

#156 mosheshmeal

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:29 PM

I know the guy personally :pardon: . I used to play 'house' with him when we were you. He had the breakdown when he did this. In a shul's bathroom no less.

IS this the guy I mentioned?

'I'm a woman, Mary. I can be as contrary as I choose.'

~ Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham


#157 TheDuncePolice

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:54 PM

.
Proud member of the "I don't always wait until I finish reading the thread to respond" club.

Believe me, every heart has its secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. ~ Robert C. Savage

#158 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:59 PM

....

#159 accolade

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:00 PM

I don't think they ever found the member.

Good one, albeit obviously unintentional.

All this talk of castration is making me sick. :nausea:
דעלך סני לחברך לא תעביד

#160 mosheshmeal

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:05 PM

No. He's not a BT.

What about the rest of it, you...

Good one, albeit obviously unintentional.

Are you saying that I can't intentionally do anything good?

'I'm a woman, Mary. I can be as contrary as I choose.'

~ Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham





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