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Kashering an electric glass cooktop


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#1 shprintza

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:45 AM

My husband and I just bought a home recently that included an electric glass cooktop. We had initally thought you Kasher it as you would any top of electric oven ( turning on the stove burners for a period of time). However, I was recently interested in finding out how to clean the cooktop for pesach. I was annoyed to discover that the non-burner areas of a glass cook top can never be Kashered! and one must cover the glass with a trivet or apply a blow torch to the area ( at risk of the glass breaking). Well, we were so annoyed - does this mean we have to buy a new oven? what about the times when we rested our hot pots on the non-burner area- does that mean we have to throw out all our pots and dishes?

Also, I read on the Star K website that if the entire oven is not kashered for pesach ( stove, broiler, oven) even if it is cleaned thourghly, then not one part of the oven can be used on Pesach. I had never heard of this before and was wondering what everyone else does when they buy a house or rent an appartment that contains an electric glass cooktop for the stove?

#2 yoel

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:52 AM

Maybe I don't know what an electric glass cooktop is, but isn't it, you know, glass? Even if you're holding by the Ashkenazi minhag to separate glass, it still can't really be treifed, can it?
וזה עקר צער של ישראל שיש להם בגלות
הכל הוא מחמת שנפלו מהדעת ותולין
הכל בטבע ובמקרים ובמזל

רבי נחמן מברסלב

#3 shprintza

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:55 AM

This was taken right out of the star K website:

Electric - Kashering a Glass, Corning, Halogen, or Ceran electric smoothtop range for Pesach use is a bit complex. To kasher the burner area, turn on the elements until they glow. The burner area is now considered kosher for Pesach. However, the remaining area that does not get hot is not kashered. The manufacturers do not suggest covering this area as one would a porcelain top, as it may cause the glass to break. Real kosherization can be accomplished by holding a blow torch over the glass until it is hot enough to singe a piece of newspaper on contact with the glass. However, this too may cause the glass to shatter and is not recommended. As the area between the burners cannot practically be kashered, it would be wise to have a trivet on the open glass area to move pots onto. In addition, it would be wise to place a metal disc, approximately 1/8 of an inch thick, on the burner area to raise the Passover pots above the rest of the glass surface. (Caution: This disc should not extend beyond the designated cooking area.) This will help in case the pot boils over, sending a trickle of hot liquid that would serve as a connector from the Passover pot to the non-Passover stovetop. (Note: Cooking efficiency may be compromised when using metal disc.)

#4 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:56 AM

....

#5 Shemmy

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:57 AM

Some Ashkenazim don't believe that glass can be kashered, hence the "ruling" from at least one kashruth organization that one needs to cover the glass tray in one's microwave for Pesah.

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#6 moe says

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:57 AM

Maybe I don't know what an electric glass cooktop is, but isn't it, you know, glass? Even if you're holding by the Ashkenazi minhag to separate glass, it still can't really be treifed, can it?

I agree.

Shprintza- you're combining the minhag of ashkenazim not to kasher glass, with the halacha that other parts of the oven can't be used unless all components have been kashered...

I'm not sure a posek would make that same combination, and come to the same conclusion as you, I think you should ask a rav.
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#7 shprintza

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:01 PM

well, that's why I posted here- I just can't believe all the stringencies we need to tolerate - but I haven't heard any dissenting opinions.

I agree.

Shprintza- you're combining the minhag of ashkenazim not to kasher glass, with the halacha that other parts of the oven can't be used unless all components have been kashered...

I'm not sure a posek would make that same combination, and come to the same conclusion as you, I think you should ask a rav.


This is coming straight from the Star K website - If you can't Kasher the Glass = then how can the entire "oven" be kosher for pesach -since there is one part that is not kashered!

#8 moe says

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:05 PM

This is coming straight from the Star K website - If you can't Kasher the Glass = then how can the entire "oven" be kosher for pesach -since there is one part that is not kashered!


you don't have to ask, but I think it is likely that you will get a different answer than the conclusion you are coming to on your own.

there may be a difference, because the unkosher-ness of glass is not the same as other materials (as was mentioned upthread)

There should be a phone number on the website... you can call them if you don't have your own rav.
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#9 yoel

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:27 PM

Some Ashkenazim don't believe that glass can be kashered, hence the "ruling" from at least one kashruth organization that one needs to cover the glass tray in one's microwave for Pesah.

For real? I thought it was just a minhag, though... Where is that opinion and how does it find ground for ruling contrary to the S"O?
וזה עקר צער של ישראל שיש להם בגלות
הכל הוא מחמת שנפלו מהדעת ותולין
הכל בטבע ובמקרים ובמזל

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#10 BroadwayFreak

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:53 PM

Regardless on how you hold about glass, the ruling on a glass cooktop is going to be completely different because it's been treated in order to withstand high temperatures. It's probably similar to Pyrex with CAN be treifed up and CAN'T be used for both milk and meat.
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#11 Red Hare

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:35 PM

i UNDERSTAND THAT not only you cannot kasher it, it can't be left on for a shabbos or yomtov or it will crack. i'd replace it with something else.
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#12 Shemmy

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:35 PM

Regardless on how you hold about glass, the ruling on a glass cooktop is going to be completely different because it's been treated in order to withstand high temperatures. It's probably similar to Pyrex with CAN be treifed up and CAN'T be used for both milk and meat.


See, most, if not all Sephardim allow one to use Pyrex for both carne e leite.

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#13 lyric

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:44 PM

I have a ceramic hob and AFAIK it's un-kasherable.
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#14 NY-LON

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:45 PM

i UNDERSTAND THAT not only you cannot kasher it, it can't be left on for a shabbos or yomtov or it will crack. i'd replace it with something else.

If gas is not available there may be no other choice. You can only get coil stoves in very low end models now.
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#15 Jewcepticon

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:45 PM

Regardless on how you hold about glass, the ruling on a glass cooktop is going to be completely different because it's been treated in order to withstand high temperatures. It's probably similar to Pyrex with CAN be treifed up and CAN'T be used for both milk and meat.


No it CAN'T its Glass, and non porous doesn't matter what its made to withstand. Pyrex is like glass, even your source which says so!
http://www.star-k.co...iners-glass.htm
A Crystal-Clear Halachic Approach to Glass
Rabbi Tzvi Rosen, Star-K Kashrus Administrator; Editor, Kashrus Kurrents

Glass is one of nature's most versatile products created from some of nature's most prevalent raw materials: sand, soda and lime. In the food industry glass applications are extremely diverse. Glass can be made into delicate drinking glasses as well as tough heat resistant ceramic cook tops withstanding temperatures over 1000F.

How is glass made? Basically, the raw ingredients are heated and melted in a large furnace. The molten glass is shaped, blown, or pressed into its desired shape. The finished product is then annealed in an annealing oven and tempered to give the newly formed glass strength and durability.

Although glass can be made to be stronger and less porous than steel, the Halachic status of glass remains enigmatic. On the one hand, Chazal recognized the fact that glass is tough, resistant and non-porous. On the other hand, glass raw materials are the same as earthenware, that is very porous, extremely absorbent and unable to be Kashered, if used in a non-kosher food application.

How does Halacha treat glass dishes and utensils? Below are a series of questions and answers about glass posed to Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rabbinic Administrator of the Star-K.

GENERAL DEFINITIONS
Q: There are many varieties of glass on the market. Do arcoroc, duralex, pyrex, corelle and crystal have the halachic status of glass?
A: Yes, they do.

Q: Is melmac glass?
A: No, melmac is plastic.

Q: Is china glass?
A: It is customary to consider it as earthenware.

Q: Is corningware glass?
A: No, it is like china.


BEVERAGE GLASSES
Q: Can one use the same glass beverage glasses for both dairy and meat meals?
A: Yes.

Q: Can these glasses be used for both hot and cold beverages?
A: Yes.


WHISKEY GLASSES
Q: Can the same whiskey glasses be used for both dairy and meat meals?
A: Yes


WASHING DISHES
Q: Can these beverage glasses be washed together with the regular dishes after the conclusion of the meal?
A: If the dishes are hand washed in the sink, they may be washed together. If the dishes are washed in a dishwasher, the glasses should not be washed together.


KLI RISHON & KLI SHEINI USAGE
Q: What constitutes Kli Rishon & Kli Sheini?
A: A utensil that is used for cooking, baking or roasting on the fire or in the oven is called a Kli Rishon (i.e. literally the first utensil). This would not be permitted for both dairy and meat. The next utensil into which hot food is transferred is called a Kli Sheini (i.e. literally the second utensil), which is permitted.

Q: Can one use the same glass utensil as a Kli Rishon, to cook and bake both dairy and meat dishes?
A: No.

Q: Can one Kasher a glass utensil that was used as a Kli Rishon for both meat and dairy dishes?
A: No.

Q: Can other glass dishes, such as salad bowls or casseroles, be used for both dairy and meat meals?
A: If the food is cold, or the glass dish is used as a Kli Sheini, it may be used for both dairy and meat meals. Unless it is used on the oven or range, a Kli Sheini is okay.


ANTIQUES
Q: Can one purchase and utilize used or antique crystal bowls or glasses?
A: Yes.

Q: Can one purchase used or antique crystal whiskey or wine bottles?
A: No, it should be avoided.


MICROWAVING
Q: Can one use the same glass turntable in a microwave oven for microwaving both meat and dairy dishes?
A: No, it should be avoided. If one places meat dishes directly on the glass turntable, then the turntable can be covered with styrofoam for use with dairy, or vice versa.

Q: If one used the turntable to microwave for both meat and dairy dishes, can the turntable be Kashered?
A: Yes.

Q: How?
A: Wash the turntable, and do not use it for 24 hours so it is an Aino Ben Yomo. Then the turntable can be used as it was originally designated.


MEAT / DAIRY MIX-UPS
Q: If someone poured hot milk on a cold meat glass/pyrex utensil or hot meat on a cold dairy glass/pyrex utensil, what should be done?
A: The dishes should be washed off and not used for 24 hours. The glass/pyrex utensil can then be used as it was originally designated.

Q: If someone poured hot milk on a hot meat glass/pyrex utensil or hot meat on a hot dairy glass/pyrex utensil, what should be done?
A: Ask a Sheilah from your Rav.


COUNTER SAVERS
Q: Can the same corelle glass counter saver be used for meat and then for dairy hot utensils?
A: Yes, but not a corning glass counter saver.


GLASS TOP STOVES
Q: How do you Kasher a glass top stove?
A: The elements of the stove should be turned on until they come to a glow. The glass burner areas are now considered kosher. However, the rest of the cooktop presents a serious kashering problem. Since glasstops are made of tempered glass that are not meant to be heated, there is a risk that the cooktop will shatter if it is heated. Therefore, the areas not kashered should be kept clean. One should not put food directly onto this surface. For Passover use, see glasstop kashering section of "The Star-K Pesach Kitchen" article.

#16 MistaJohny5

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 03:38 PM

I would normally never start a post with this but for the sake of the discussion - here goes: Im a rabbi (yes, a frum one).

Scientifically, glass can never become meat, milk, kosher, treif, chametzdik, or Pesachdik. Glass is a non-porous material and thus can never be non kosher!

Even according to Ashkenazim who are machmir by glass (as a minhag, not as a halachic reality), glass always remains as it is - glass, kosher, and pareve. If you feel you need to be strict, one may follow the psak of Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank and kasher it using boiling water.

Feel free to message me for specifics.

Happy Pesach and stay Kosher!

#17 Gabbe

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:57 PM

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