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Your friend stops covering her hair


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#21 Shoshi

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:15 AM

which part?


That someone would get divorced over their spouse not covering hair.

#22 Spiffy

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:18 AM

That someone would get divorced over their spouse not covering hair.

If it's indicative of a difference in fundamental outlook, I think it's pretty understandable.
A Jew without good middos is simply incomplete...

Every age is modern to those that live in it

How do you feel when there's no sun? And how will you be when rain clouds come and pull you down again?

Mmmmm, whatcha say?

#23 Belle

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:22 AM

If it's indicative of a difference in fundamental outlook, I think it's pretty understandable.


:thumbsup: I'm not good at letting go; if my spouse did something pretty huge like that, I wonder how I'd handle it.
"Belle has the right of it" - Shemmy

"i have come to believe that belle is closer to the truth" - Snag

"Belle is, of course, right." - Razie

#24 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:26 AM

....

#25 Xi

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:00 AM

But what is wrong with making a nonjudgemental comment like "wow, that must have been a tough decision" and she can say yes, she's been conflicted, or no, it was the best thing she ever did, or she can change the topic. Obviously depending on the context and the nature of your relationship.

Nothing wrong, if you're friends. From similar experience. It can be more awkward the other way.
But of course, depends on the person too.
Xi is intimidating, in an endearing sort of way. --Gretchen

#26 Red Hare

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:10 AM

As far as the divorce, it's not just that she doesn't cover her hair. What else did she stop or start doing ?
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#27 Shoshi

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:20 AM

And ultimately it is nobody's business but her own and her husband's and arguably it isn't even her husband's.


:clapping:

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:23 AM

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#29 Belle

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:25 AM

Ok, what about if your friend STARTS covering her hair? That is often less dramatic since there are few who never cover their hair so starting to cover usually means covering where she previously hadn't. Let's say she starts showing up to work with a sheitel or to the park during the week with a tichel.

Do you say something?


Yes, that's different. It isn't seen as judgmental, unless it's said in a sneering tone of voice.
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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

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#31 Belle

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:33 AM

We assume the default reaction if she stops is judgmental but if she starts it is validating or supportive?


Not necessarily validating or supportive, but in general, frum people view "aliyos" as positive, and "yeridos" as negative. No?
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#32 justajew

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:36 AM

On the other hand I also hear that she may be embarassed or tired of everyone's yentaish comments. And ultimately it is nobody's business but her own and her husband's and arguably it isn't even her husband's.

:stupid:
That's what my rabbi told my wife and I when we were engaged and we were talking to him about if she needs to cover, how much covered etc. He told me it's nice that I want to be involved but basically other than complementing what she is wearing, I don't have anything to say.
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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:38 AM

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#34 adiel

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

Ok, what about if your friend STARTS covering her hair?

Do you say something?

It's such an anomaly that it would definitely be brought up in conversation. Most girls are doing whatever they can to get the shaitel OFF. a girl who is suddenly covering her hair for a reason other than being married either :

1) has ugly hair which she is trying to conceal
2) is trying to get attention (which is why you should ask)
3) eloped and didn't tell you
4) is a closet masochist.
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#35 Belle

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:41 AM

Hmmm...i have to think about that.

Let's say she starts to wear pants, something that arguably is not a yeridah if it is not against halachah, it is just different.

Or let's say she has always worn a full sheitel and now is starting to wear a fall or a hat where a lot of her hair is exposed.


It would depend on the community. In a RW community, it would be a negative change. In a more MO community, maybe just a "change" without many implications.
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#36 adiel

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:42 AM

It's such an anomaly that it would definitely be brought up in conversation. Most girls are doing whatever they can to get the shaitel OFF. a girl who is suddenly covering her hair for a reason other than being married either :

1) has ugly hair which she is trying to conceal
2) is trying to get attention (which is why you should ask)
3) eloped and didn't tell you
4) is a closet masochist.

am i completely off over here?

we're talking about a MARRIED person STARTING to cover her hair?
We are the music makers , and we are the dreamers of the dreams. - Willy Wonka

What the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve. - Napoleon Hill

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#37 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

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#38 brianna

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:51 AM

There was a woman in my parent's neighborhood who got divorced about ten years ago. The first time we visited after she was not wearing a shaitel and my mother was noticeably surprised. The woman said "No man in my bed, no shaitel on my head" with a smile, by way of explanation.

She was in her late forties so the neighborhood just accepted it. I get the impression that the younger (and more attractive you are) the more tznius in general is enforced.
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#39 Guest_Melech_*

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

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#40 Belle

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

Pants you mean?
But surely in a RW community nobody is judgmental and they would be jumping through hoops to find a limud zechut no matter how absurd.


I mean both, I think.

And surely!
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