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Requesting a loan


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#1 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 02:40 PM

If you needed money on loan.
Would you rather ask a gemach (interest-free) for the loan?
Would you rather put the charge on your credit card and end up having to pay back all that credit?

Why?
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#2 TimeRebbe

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 02:43 PM

if you couldnt afford a credit card or bank/public loan, then i think you can go to a g'mach
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#3 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:02 PM

if you couldnt afford a credit card or bank/public loan, then i think you can go to a g'mach

And if you can?
Why should you have to pay the interest. (Also, the assumption is that you're going for the loan because you can't afford the $$ as is, so for sure, you obviously can't afford MORE than that right now).
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#4 Razie

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:09 PM

If you needed money on loan.
Would you rather ask a gemach (interest-free) for the loan?
Would you rather put the charge on your credit card and end up having to pay back all that credit?

Why?

I personally would be averse to tapping a tzedakah organization unless I didn't have much of a choice or it was really no big deal to the organization (like a wedding dress gemach where you give them money anyway) or it was specifically something that i didn't opt in to (like bikkur cholim invading my hospital room and leaving a challah roll)

#5 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:11 PM

I personally would be averse to tapping a tzedakah organization unless I didn't have much of a choice or it was really no big deal to the organization (like a wedding dress gemach where you give them money anyway) or it was specifically something that i didn't opt in to (like bikkur cholim invading my hospital room and leaving a challah roll)

Why?

Why is it different to take a loan from 'r' moishele's gemach' than to take a loan from MasterCard? Why is one more demeaning than the other?
Many people wish they could change their life, when all they really need to do is change their attitude towards life. - Sharon

#6 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:15 PM

I personally would be averse to tapping a tzedakah organization unless I didn't have much of a choice or it was really no big deal to the organization (like a wedding dress gemach where you give them money anyway) or it was specifically something that i didn't opt in to (like bikkur cholim invading my hospital room and leaving a challah roll)

Why?

Why is it different to take a loan from 'r' moishele's gemach' than to take a loan from MasterCard? Why is one more demeaning than the other?
Many people wish they could change their life, when all they really need to do is change their attitude towards life. - Sharon

#7 Razie

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:22 PM

Why?

Why is it different to take a loan from 'r' moishele's gemach' than to take a loan from MasterCard? Why is one more demeaning than the other?

I didn't use the word demeaning.

One is a business transaction and mutually beneficial.
One is charity and I am a charity case.

#8 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:26 PM

I didn't use the word demeaning.

One is a business transaction and mutually beneficial.
One is charity and I am a charity case.

It's mutually benefitting to overpay and put money into the pocket of CEO of MasterCard, why?
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#9 Razie

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:32 PM

It's mutually benefitting to overpay and put money into the pocket of CEO of MasterCard, why?

Because I need money and they want it. If it's not beneficial to me to take the loan, I won't. Doing something out of necessity doesn't mean it's not beneficial.

#10 TimeRebbe

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:32 PM

It's mutually benefitting to overpay and put money into the pocket of CEO of MasterCard, why?


you build your credit score

As razie said, borrowing money from a gemach is a form of tzeddakah; don't rely on it unless you need to. There are other avenues like credit unions and such that can help you with low-interest and affordable loans. I would say use a gemach as a means of last resort, but only you can decide what that means
"10 a.m. - We begin our descent. On the way down, Chief of Landfills Thorne informs us that Mount Trashmore contains - I am not making this up - human body parts AND dead whales." -Dave Barry
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
"I guess the problem is that I think most people are idiots (granted, WELL MEANING idiots)" --KR

#11 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:33 PM

Because I need money and they want it. If it's not beneficial to me to take the loan, I won't. Doing something out of necessity doesn't mean it's not beneficial.

But why can't you want money, and just worry about benefiting yourself. Do you want to give every joe shmoe your money?
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#12 TimeRebbe

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:46 PM

But why can't you want money, and just worry about benefiting yourself. Do you want to give every joe shmoe your money?


if the gemach is ok with it, fine, but not if its tzeddaka money
"10 a.m. - We begin our descent. On the way down, Chief of Landfills Thorne informs us that Mount Trashmore contains - I am not making this up - human body parts AND dead whales." -Dave Barry
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
"I guess the problem is that I think most people are idiots (granted, WELL MEANING idiots)" --KR

#13 Razie

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:54 PM

But why can't you want money, and just worry about benefiting yourself. Do you want to give every joe shmoe your money?

You're talking like you're entitled to a loan or something and having to pay people for it is giving away your money.

You're not entitled to a loan, and paying for one is like paying for socks in a store. You're not "giving away your money" - you're buying something.

I'm not giving any joe shmoe my money. I'm paying for something, which is the right to use money that isn't mine for a short period of time. "Time value of money" is a real thing.

If you go to a gemach and get an interest free loan, then fine for you. But don't fool yourself. A loan is a thing with value, and an interest-free loan is something you're getting for free. It's a tzedakah, and it's no different than if you went to a tzedakah organization that gave out shoes, cheerios, or anything else for free, based on need.

#14 FYI

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:13 PM

If you go to a gemach and get an interest free loan, then fine for you. But don't fool yourself. A loan is a thing with value, and an interest-free loan is something you're getting for free. It's a tzedakah, and it's no different than if you went to a tzedakah organization that gave out shoes, cheerios, or anything else for free, based on need.

I now understand your perspective and what you are saying. Thank you for clarifying.
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#15 radioreuven

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 01:34 PM

Taking advantage of a gemach when you don't really need it is an aveira.
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#16 Xi

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:34 PM

Taking advantage of a gemach when you don't really need it is an aveira.

I'm not even going to comment on the word choice, but re: the sentiment, it depends on the kind of gemach. Many gemachs are meant for everyone, not just for those who really need it (think a tefillin gemach for when you're out of town, or a chair gemach for when you have guests).
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#17 radioreuven

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:38 PM

I'm not even going to comment on the word choice, but re: the sentiment, it depends on the kind of gemach. Many gemachs are meant for everyone, not just for those who really need it (think a tefillin gemach for when you're out of town, or a chair gemach for when you have guests).


I was referring to a gemach based on need with limited resources. Most loan gemachs do background checks.
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#18 FYI

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 09:17 PM

I was referring to a gemach based on need with limited resources. Most loan gemachs do background checks.

My question assumes that the requester of the loan honesty and transparently meets all of the loan requirements. [I'm sorry if it would never occur to me that people would try to pretend they need a loan from a gemach when they don't.]
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#19 mediabias

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 02:11 AM

u need a co-signer. i know of some1 who co-signed a loan for some1. the borrower didnt pay back the loan and the burden of paying was on my friend.
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#20 Pinchas

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 02:42 AM

The gemara says it's better "to make Shabbos like a weekday" (i.e. spend much less on Shabbos) than to take tzedukah.

That said you certainly shouldn't take a loan from your credit card! That's just foolish! There isn't a loan around with a higher interest rate! If you can somehow get a mortgage that would be a much lower interest rate. That said if you are really stuck I would certainly advise a gamach way before a credit card "loan!"

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