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Had Moses cleft palate?


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#1 asoul

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:47 AM

In the article "The speech defect of Moses" by Solomon Levin I have read that Moses had cleft palate. I cannot give here much quotes from this article because it is in .pdf But few of them are below.

The speech defect of Moses is widely interpreted as stammering.

It seems to me that there was some special problem about his mouth rather than the attribute of talk.

Did Moses have a physical blemish?

Clearly she had some anxiety about him; she had noticed some physical problem, and he needed special attention for three months, the period when he was supposedly hidden from a pharaoh's fictional edict.

More likely she scrutinized him because he was born with some abnormality such as a cleft lip or cleft lip and palate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1293694/pdf/jrsocmed00106-0058.pdf


At first opinion it seems unlikely. However... It is a known fact that such inherited defect had pharaohs of dynasty of Amenhotep who lived in the times of Moses. So what? Had Moses cleft palate really? Maybe such pathology was widely spread thousands years ago? :unknw:

#2 Snag

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:19 AM

according to rabbinic sources, the root of moshe's speech defect was a severe burn he suffered on his tongue in infancy.

furthermore, the assumption that yocheved's hiding of moshe for three months was the product of "having noticed a physical blemish" is also at odss with the classical sources, who explain that moshe was born prematurely, and thus was able to be hidden until term.

but i'm unsure what a person who thinks he was "supposedly" hidden from a "fictional" edict is doing bothering to try to advance novel explanations of the verses.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#3 Xi

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:34 AM

but i'm unsure what a person who thinks he was "supposedly" hidden from a "fictional" edict is doing bothering to try to advance novel explanations of the verses.

I don't see why not.
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#4 Snag

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:41 AM

I don't see why not.

what for? why not spend one's time positing alternate theories to explain happenings in the lord of the rings? perhaps suggest that gollum had a genetic disorder which granted him extreme longevity but robbed him of the generally healthy appearance of the hobbits and slurred his speech?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#5 Xi

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:21 AM

what for? why not spend one's time positing alternate theories to explain happenings in the lord of the rings? perhaps suggest that gollum had a genetic disorder which granted him extreme longevity but robbed him of the generally healthy appearance of the hobbits and slurred his speech?

People do post alternate theories about fictional stories they are into. Don't tell me you haven't seen plenty of speculation into the LOTR (or Harry Potter, if that's what floats your boat). It's all very fun and intellectually stimulating.
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#6 Snag

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:41 AM

People do post alternate theories about fictional stories they are into. Don't tell me you haven't seen plenty of speculation into the LOTR (or Harry Potter, if that's what floats your boat). It's all very fun and intellectually stimulating.

but do they send them to medical journals? furthermore, in those fanfics, i've never seen anyone refer to plot portions as "supposed" or "fictional".
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#7 Xi

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:51 AM

but do they send them to medical journals? furthermore, in those fanfics, i've never seen anyone refer to plot portions as "supposed" or "fictional".

It seems weird to me that it got published, although I don't know what kinds of articles they usually publish. I'm sure any LOTR fan would be glad to have his ideas published in a fancy journal if he could.
The latter is indeed a bit over-the-top and unique to people who have to prove that they don't believe in religion. OTOH, since no one actually believes that LOTR is true, there is no need for the author to mention its fictional status. The same cannot be said for the Torah.
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#8 Snag

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:52 AM

It seems weird to me that it got published, although I don't know what kinds of articles they usually publish. I'm sure any LOTR fan would be glad to have his ideas published in a fancy journal if he could.
The latter is indeed a bit over-the-top and unique to people who have to prove that they don't believe in religion. OTOH, since no one actually believes that LOTR is true, there is no need for the author to mention its fictional status. The same cannot be said for the Torah.

i hear.

(your avvie needs to be resized, btw)
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#9 Xi

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:54 AM

(your avvie needs to be resized, btw)

(thanks. i'm too lazy, but someday. does it appear stretched or merely cropped? I hate that they put the black stripes around non-square avvies.)
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#10 Snag

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:56 AM

(thanks. i'm too lazy, but someday. does it appear stretched or merely cropped? I hate that they put the black stripes around non-square avvies.)

(it's stretched and blurry)

asoul - i just remembered that the talmud also indicates an unwillingness to ascribe a physical blemish (mum) to moshe - when one rabbi explained that, at three months old, his voice was like that of a young child (naar), the other rabbi responded "if [that is your interpretation of the verse] then you have made our teacher into a blemished one (baal mum)".
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#11 mosheshmeal

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 08:42 PM

Anyway, the answer to the OP is no.

'I'm a woman, Mary. I can be as contrary as I choose.'

~ Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham


#12 asoul

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:27 AM

And also I have read that in some cases cleft palate might appear as result of a ritual custom. It is concerning not Moses but various tribes of Bedouins in the South Sinai. Geographical area is the same... Have/had cleft palate some special meaning for this region? :unknw:


Mutilation Of The Uvula Among Bedouins Of The South Sinai
Mutilation of the uvula, as practiced by various tribes of Bedouins in the South Sinai, was discovered while carrying out anthropological studies in the area. Partial or total amputation of the uvula is performed on both boys and girls during the first or second year of life, as a ritual custom. Anatomical changes in the soft palate due to the uvulectomy in 115 subjects were studied. The remnant of the uvula (scar) was classified according to size as: very large, large, medium, small, trace or none. A notch or kind of cleft of the palate, as a result of the uvulectomy, was considered the most extreme degree of extirpation. The majority (47%) was of small size and a notch was found in 9.6%. Changes in shape and symmetry of the arches of the palate as a result of the uvulectomy are also described. These changes are explained on the basis of the anatomical structure of the palate and uvula. The possible effects of the uvulectomy on health in general and on speech in particular were also studied.

http://www.tau.ac.il...obiography.html

#13 politico

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 11:38 AM

but do they send them to medical journals?

It seems weird to me that it got published, although I don't know what kinds of articles they usually publish.


http://jrsm.rsmjourn.../misc/about.dtl
http://jrsm.rsmjourn...isc/authors.dtl
zinh.




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