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Wine -- an acceptable breakfast drink?


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#41 greentiger

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:41 PM

Mishley (Proverbs) 23:20
"Do not be among wine-guzzlers, among gluttonous eaters of meat for themselves."
Mezudath David explains: "for their own pleasure, not for the enjoyment of the Sabbath and Festivals".
Eliyahu Rabbah (ch26) limits even the consumption of meat and wine on the Sabbath.

Well i've never heard of anyone limiting their meat consumption for this reason so why use it as an excuse for wine?
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#42 Red Hare

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:44 PM

Sure. Chorban beis haMikdash.
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#43 rvn2590

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:48 PM

Well i've never heard of anyone limiting their meat consumption for this reason so why use it as an excuse for wine?


I limit my meat consumption for this reason. HaRav Kook limited his meat consumptioin as well.
טובה הארץ מאד מאד

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#44 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:17 PM

If I recall, Pirke Avot says it's a bad practice to consume alcohol early in the day. So, AM wine is something not encouraged---except for kiddush.

What kind of weirdos make kiddush in the AM??? :unsure:

Midday ain't morning. :)

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#45 goyishrebbe

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:18 PM

"R. Dosa b. Harkinas said: Morning sleep and midday wine and children’s talk and sitting in the meeting houses of the ignorant people put a man out of the world." (3:14)


Thanks!!!!

#46 Belle

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:44 PM

Thanks!!!!


now all we have to do is wait for savannah to apologize for accusing you of misremembering. :p
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#47 Snag

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:07 AM

now all we have to do is wait for savannah to apologize for accusing you of misremembering. :p

no, she was right - it's sleep of morning and wine of afternoon
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#48 Belle

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:54 PM

no, she was right - it's sleep of morning and wine of afternoon


i read it. I think one can assume that if wine in the afternoon is frowned upon, wine in the morning is hardly laudable.
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#49 Snag

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:19 PM

i read it. I think one can assume that if wine in the afternoon is frowned upon, wine in the morning is hardly laudable.

well, one would first have to know why afternoon wine is bad. regardless, even if the kal vachomer is valid, it still doesn't say in pirkei avos that morning wine is bad, and when i read the post i was going to make the correction myself.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#50 Belle

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

well, one would first have to know why afternoon wine is bad. regardless, even if the kal vachomer is valid, it still doesn't say in pirkei avos that morning wine is bad, and when i read the post i was going to make the correction myself.


ok, it's close enough to me. goyishrebbe wasn't completely off his mark, as sav indicated.
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#51 Savannah

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:47 PM

ok, it's close enough to me. goyishrebbe wasn't completely off his mark, as sav indicated.

He said Pirkei Avot said it. It doesn't say it. If he's right, it implies it. If he's wrong, he's completely off the mark and completely misunderstanding the quote, reading it through modern eyes instead of realizing that back then water didn't come out of your tap, so it was more common to drink wine at various meals throughout the day, including breakfast.

#52 comfortingsong

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:13 AM

wine is holy and full of kedusha. peace.

:lol:

I could drink a bottle of Moscato for breakfast, love that stuff.

Moscato = glorified fresca. It should be forbidden to even call that stuff wine. I agree that it's yummy, but it's just slightly alcoholic soda, in all honesty.

I ended up in the curious position today of drinking wine with breakfast (I wanted grapefruit juice, but we were out, and I saw the wine and decided, on whim, to have some [it was flat, if you're interested]).

Does "it was flat," imply that it was once bubbly? Like with Moscato, I personally think that bubbly wine is just kiddie wine. Wine is meant to be flat. Unless we're talking about champagne or glorified fresca.

#53 RebDan

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:34 AM

cake > wine

#54 Belle

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:42 AM

He said Pirkei Avot said it. It doesn't say it. If he's right, it implies it. If he's wrong, he's completely off the mark and completely misunderstanding the quote, reading it through modern eyes instead of realizing that back then water didn't come out of your tap, so it was more common to drink wine at various meals throughout the day, including breakfast.


Ok. I apologize.

Moscato = glorified fresca. It should be forbidden to even call that stuff wine. I agree that it's yummy, but it's just slightly alcoholic soda, in all honesty.

Like with Moscato, I personally think that bubbly wine is just kiddie wine. Wine is meant to be flat. Unless we're talking about champagne or glorified fresca.


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#55 goyishrebbe

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:51 AM

.... If he's wrong, he's completely off the mark and completely misunderstanding the quote, reading it through modern eyes instead of realizing that back then water didn't come out of your tap, so it was more common to drink wine at various meals throughout the day, including breakfast.


You don't give up easily, do you?

I am aware that people had less access to clean water supplies in the old days. However, they still would drink water. Not all sources would be contaminated---springs and wells would not be a problem. Also, alcohol still had physical effects--making a person less able to work and concentrate.People were quite aware of this. Islam meanwhile has banned the use of alcoholic beverages since its founding in the 7th century, well before modern sanitation.

#56 starwolf

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

Islam meanwhile has banned the use of alcoholic beverages since its founding in the 7th century, well before modern sanitation.


Where did that get them?

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doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#57 Bluelaptop

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:22 AM

.
Sleeping Beauty came at 4
Her eyes were filled with tears.
"Oh my," she said, "I overslept
About a hundred years."

(Mr. Cuckoo's Clock Shop)




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