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Why shouldn't moderation be discussed in an open forum?


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#61 Arizona

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:04 AM

.
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#62 Elana

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

J may want to be arbitrary. That's his prerogative, and in all honesty, its smarter running an operation without many clearly defined rules, because it adds to the leeway mods get.

And there are the FAQ's, so the site does have rules.


as i said before, SJ being arbitrary is fine, AS LONG AS HE ANNOUNCES IT. just say that i'll deal with any threads/posts as i seem fit and no members ahs the right to discuss it, and that's it. this is the rule. but to be saying how we want to make members happy and we work so hard at it (which i don't doubt for a sec and appreciate, just think it's a useless work sometimes), while doing ur own stalin-like (or rather, putin/medvedev style - doing what you want with someone else's hands) censorship, is detrimental to the site and not smart.

As Elana said it perfectly:


why, thank you :blushing:

Amazing that as soon as people come back and the site returns to a tiny bit of life, this nonsense with random moderation and refusal to communicate with puzzled members comes back as well.


ironic, isn't it?

would the administration prefer the place to go back to its dead condition? especially since SJ keeps on saying how much he wants the site to continue growing - why are you stoping this growth????




and SJ, saying that Melech is behind such threads is beyond ludicrous. i'm not in chat and i can see that ppl are genuinely upset and puzzled with what you (and Pinchas) do with threads/posts. you really don't hav eto be a genius to see that, but, given the history of you two, you prefer to blame it on Melech rather than acknowledge that MANY PPL FEEL THIS WAY.

why in the world can't ppl post about what bothers them about moderation?? it's not one person who has Qs that can be dealt with via PM!

why can't ppl question why their posts were removed (Raizy's thread, anyone?)??? and why shouldn't it be done publicly? they are removed publicly!

why can't ppl mention CHAT in their posts???

#63 happyduck1979

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

I have been to the CHAT so I have no idea what the big deal is about it. On the other hand, I have been a mod on other boards, and I can see reason for wanting to display moderation decision across the forum. That being said, I do think that if something has been edited it should be clear.

A post closed should stay in place, just be locked. If it is really so bad as to NEED to be deleted the post should stand with the text deleted and a note along the lines of "This post deleted the Admin". Then, if people want to know why, they can ask. But just to have it disappear is akin to rewriting history. That post was there. Someone took the time to write it, to post it, and when they or someone else go back looking for it there needs to be a) record it was ever there and b) a record of what happened to it. I would like to a c) and why, but understand that Silent J is going to do what he wants in any case.

I understand first hand how hard a mod or admin can work, and yes I know this might add a few seconds to their jobs, but on the other hand if it increases the hakarat hatov, the hanhalah of the site feel better about themselves and the posters feel better for having some transparency.

Also, if being a mod/admin is too big a job for people (this is not directed at anyone in particular- we all have things that get in the way of our virtual selves, sometimes are more busy, some times are less) then maybe they should take a break from what they are doing. I am not saying resign altogether, but maybe some time off might help to clarify why regular posters are upset about what we think we are seeing. I can't see any reason that an online persona, no matter how big, should ever come to the point of being threatened over his/her decisions in anything more than an "if I don't get what I want I am going to leave" sort of way (and I think that is just childish).
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#64 agent220

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

Personally, I find as a mod elsewhere it's easier to remove a post and therefore be able to put it back if deemed that the action was incorrect than editing the post and not being able to put it back.

Of course, mention should then be made along the lines of "Some posts were deleted. PM me for further questions."
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#65 Snag

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:45 PM

I believe that the mods truly want the best for the site and it's membership, which is why they are genuinely hurt and puzzled by the response they get. The problem is that apparently, for whatever reason, there has spring up a divide between the mods and the general membership wherein there are certain things that each side sees as clear and unequivocal, which the other sees equally starkly as the opposite. That's why I think the solution is member arbitration rather than added mods, so there can be an open dialogue where each side can explain their position to the other, and an come to mutual agreement.
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#66 Red Hare

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:23 PM

I've moderated boards before. I know that deleting spam is a big job. Maybe I could volunteer to do that.
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#67 comfortingsong

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:59 PM

as i said before, SJ being arbitrary is fine, AS LONG AS HE ANNOUNCES IT. just say that i'll deal with any threads/posts as i seem fit and no members ahs the right to discuss it, and that's it. this is the rule. but to be saying how we want to make members happy and we work so hard at it (which i don't doubt for a sec and appreciate, just think it's a useless work sometimes), while doing ur own stalin-like (or rather, putin/medvedev style - doing what you want with someone else's hands) censorship, is detrimental to the site and not smart.


I totally agree with this. My biggest issue of all is the fact that the message is being given across that moderation is being done as person the board guidelines, when this is clearly not true and things are being selectively moderated arbitrarily. This is fine, but then the board guidelines should be removed and it should be announced, "the board is privately owned, therefore a decision was made that the posts will be arbitrarily moderated as we please." That's fine with me. Just be honest about it.

#68 Silent J

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:58 PM

As suggested by a member via PM, we can make a forum for "Threads and Posts which were deleted" where the mods will leave them closed with a reason for the moderator action. This can be a Member only forum and visible for anyone who would like to know what happened to any post or thread. Supposedly, they do that on IAM.com

I like this idea.
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#69 agent220

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:07 PM

Not exactly...
If a thread is removed, there is a single thread that gets updated, but it's locked so no non-mod can comment.
If a post is removed, there is notice put in the thread it was removed from about it.
Things that need to be removed should not remain visible.
When you try to make a statement, all you're really doing is raising questions.

#70 Elana

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:12 PM

As suggested by a member via PM, we can make a forum for "Threads and Posts which were deleted" where the mods will leave them closed with a reason for the moderator action. This can be a Member only forum and visible for anyone who would like to know what happened to any post or thread. Supposedly, they do that on IAM.com

I like this idea.


this will solve only a problme of knowing why the threads/posts were deleted.

but if they were deleted becuase they mentioned chat, it still leaves us with a problem of selective moderation (that is not ABG), which is a huge problem with the membership as well.

#71 Silent J

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:53 PM

Just to answer you (and everyone) very quickly about the chat (as I'm bombed and have to go to sleep).

Initially, the original thread about chat was not a problem b/c I felt it helped facilitate a social aspect that this site is void of. But once it became a means of siphoning members OFF of this site, it essentially became SPAM. The one thread was left to remain so that some members who were absent (myself included) had their fix from H.com (offsite).

But now that we're working to recoup the board and bring members back, it was treated as all other SPAM. Again, this wasn't action that was done by me. But if I am going to be held responsible for it, this would be my position.

I appreciate your understanding.
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#72 comfortingsong

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

I'm just amazed that this thread is still up.

#73 Elana

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:14 PM

Just to answer you (and everyone) very quickly about the chat (as I'm bombed and have to go to sleep).

Initially, the original thread about chat was not a problem b/c I felt it helped facilitate a social aspect that this site is void of. But once it became a means of siphoning members OFF of this site, it essentially became SPAM. The one thread was left to remain so that some members who were absent (myself included) had their fix from H.com (offsite).

But now that we're working to recoup the board and bring members back, it was treated as all other SPAM. Again, this wasn't action that was done by me. But if I am going to be held responsible for it, this would be my position.

I appreciate your understanding.


i have no clue what you mean by that one remaining thread. and the chat example was just the first thing that came to my head to make my point.

but, in general, it's a bad idea to deal with results as opposed to reasons. in the long run it'll get you nowhere. so, speaking of this chat business, instead of finding out why the members were particiapting in chat and not on h.com, "you" (or whoever it was) just banned any mention of it. does it sound mature to you?

#74 Pinchas

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 04:03 AM

I'm just amazed that this thread is still up.


Why?

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#75 Shaina

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:25 AM

But now that we're working to recoup the board and bring members back,


What actions are you taking to bring people back?

(other than deleting chat threads, of course, though I don't see how that would be an effective method of reviving h.com)
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#76 comfortingsong

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:51 AM

I'm just amazed that this thread is still up.

Why?


Just to clarify, this post was meant seriously. Why? Because in the past, as you've admitted, you've deleted and locked threads where people complain about moderation. Good for you for allowing the discussion to continue, and good for SJ for participating and trying to work things out. That takes a lot of guts, and I'm really impressed to see that happening.

#77 Psychodad

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 12:04 PM

Just to clarify, this post was meant seriously. Why? Because in the past, as you've admitted, you've deleted and locked threads where people complain about moderation. Good for you for allowing the discussion to continue, and good for SJ for participating and trying to work things out. That takes a lot of guts, and I'm really impressed to see that happening.

why are you licking pinchas and silent j's butt?

#78 comfortingsong

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 12:05 PM

why are you licking pinchas and silent j's butt?


:huh: Have you read any of my posts in this thread?




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