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How you can help Beit Shemesh


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#1 Sweet

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:22 AM

If you're like me, you are wondering how you can help make the situation in Beit Shemesh better. Of course, you can post on Hashkafah.com about it, but that only reaches a limited number of readers who already agree with you. You can refuse to give money to Chareidi meshulachim, but that runs the risk of victimizing one innocent person, with little chance of having any effect.

Luckily, I have come up with a brilliant plan. We should contact the Chareidi tzedakas who collect in America, and a. tell them that we refuse to give them money as long as the situation persists, and we should then b. Not give them money. This will work for several reasons. First of all, they have the inside track to the gedolim. They are the few people who we know tell the gedolim exactly where to stand for pictures, what sort of blessing to offer the silly superstitious chutznikim, and which names to have in mind while saying kapparos at the kever of Rabbeinu Bachya. .

Second, if it's true that the "fanatics" (although a great number of people in the community seem to be fanatics) are the ones behind this, and they don't listen to the gedolim, they are still likely to listen when they are not getting the money that supports them.

So it's a win-win. You get to save money while making your point, and the people behind this lose money. I wonder if you could use maaser money to not give, because it is such a toeles.

Joking aside, I honestly think that if people pick this up and run with it, it can make a difference.
The world has too many stupid people who are full of confidence, and smart people who are full of self-doubt.

#2 Snag

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:30 AM

Joking aside, I think this is an excellent idea. Sign me up.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#3 Sweet

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:33 AM

Joking aside, I think this is an excellent idea. Sign me up.

:clapping: Woohoo! I will find their contact information and post it here. The next task will be spamming all the influential bloggers about it.
Isn't there also another tzedaka that is "competition" with Kupar ha'ir? What is that called?
The world has too many stupid people who are full of confidence, and smart people who are full of self-doubt.

#4 Snag

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:38 AM

:clapping: Woohoo! I will find their contact information and post it here. The next task will be spamming all the influential bloggers about it.
Isn't there also another tzedaka that is "competition" with Kupar ha'ir? What is that called?

Vaad harabanim
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#5 Savannah

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:50 AM

It's a good idea. Too bad I've already been doing it for years.

#6 Sweet

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:51 AM

It's a good idea. Too bad I've already been doing it for years.

Doing what? Calling them and saying that you refuse to donate?
The world has too many stupid people who are full of confidence, and smart people who are full of self-doubt.

#7 happyduck1979

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:01 PM

:clapping: Woohoo! I will find their contact information and post it here. The next task will be spamming all the influential bloggers about it.
Isn't there also another tzedaka that is "competition" with Kupar ha'ir? What is that called?


Please be careful. There are also some very good and reputable charities here. Lemaan Achai was very helpful to my family when we needed support. Lev Echad works with th surrounding yishuvim to make sure those interested in learning can do so. KLY and Tomchei Shabbos help put food and (in the case of the former) fresh vegetables on people's tables. I am sure there are lots more, but these are just the ones I thought of off hand. Some of these organizations are VERY vocal about what is going on and do take an active role in trying to make BS a better place.

Not all BS tzedakah organizations are, well, bs. Try not to toss the baby with the bathwater.
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#8 Shoshi

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:06 PM

If you're like me, you are wondering how you can help make the situation in Beit Shemesh better. Of course, you can post on Hashkafah.com about it, but that only reaches a limited number of readers who already agree with you. You can refuse to give money to Chareidi meshulachim, but that runs the risk of victimizing one innocent person, with little chance of having any effect.

Luckily, I have come up with a brilliant plan. We should contact the Chareidi tzedakas who collect in America, and a. tell them that we refuse to give them money as long as the situation persists, and we should then b. Not give them money.


I think that's a great idea.

But I have a question, if all of you are "not charedi/ultra-Orthodox", why are you giving to charedi tzedakas in the first place?

As an aside, does anyone find it amusing that the acronym for Beit Shemesh is "BS"? Just saying...

#9 DQ

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:13 PM

I think that's a great idea.

But I have a question, if all of you are "not charedi/ultra-Orthodox", why are you giving to charedi tzedakas in the first place?

As an aside, does anyone find it amusing that the acronym for Beit Shemesh is "BS"? Just saying...


I'm sure Barbara Streisand is quite upset about it.


Good thinking Sweet.

#10 happyduck1979

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:28 PM

As an aside, does anyone find it amusing that the acronym for Beit Shemesh is "BS"? Just saying...


Almost amusing if the problem elements were not coming from RBSB.
"Don't listen to people who try to defend what God has done to you. God is a big boy. He can take care of himself. You take care of you"-unknown comforting visitor after we lost Gabbi

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#11 greentiger

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:42 PM

i'm thinking about this, and at first glance it sounds good... but, assuming you get enough people on board to make this work... who says the tzedaka originizations have what it takes to stop this? What if the sikrikim from bet shemesh don't care? You just end up harming innocent people in the process: the originization for getting involved and the families benefiting from their help. Lets say it does help. Lets say this scares the rabbonim to speak up and enforce their control to stop all violence, then thats great, but what you essentially have is a bunch of angry bloggers controlling the rabbonim with money threats. So today its the sikrikim which is an untolerable, but say tomorrow some guy decides its segregation in the schools that he doesn't like, gets enough people on board and pulls the same shtick...?
I'd be curious how else this could be abused..
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#12 Snag

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:52 PM

I think that's a great idea.

But I have a question, if all of you are "not charedi/ultra-Orthodox", why are you giving to charedi tzedakas in the first place?

the same reason i'd donate to organizations run by the modern orthodox if i approved of what they were doing. for instance, the two charities mentioned do not promote (in their charity work, anyway) any chareidi values, they just make sure poor people have money to put food on the family. if, say, i lived in a community where tomchei shabbos or hatzalah were run by the modern orthodox, i'd donate to them just as i do now, despite my being one of those... eh, i can't even say it.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#13 starwolf

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:54 PM

But I have a question, if all of you are "not charedi/ultra-Orthodox", why are you giving to charedi tzedakas in the first place?

I have a question. does a needy person or a worthy cause have to conform to your ideology 100% for you to give them money?

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ


doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#14 Jeanette

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:54 PM

I have a question. does a needy person or a worthy cause have to conform to your ideology 100% for you to give them money?

do you need to be a whale to give to save the whales?

#15 starwolf

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:03 PM

i'm thinking about this, and at first glance it sounds good... but, assuming you get enough people on board to make this work... who says the tzedaka originizations have what it takes to stop this? What if the sikrikim from bet shemesh don't care?


the sikrikim do not care. however, cutting off funds will make the rest of the community--and especially the leaders, care enough that they will stop their support of the hooligans. Especially if this is coupled by the Israeli government cutting off funds to hareidi institutions.

Start off with major yeshivot. Start off with major hasidicm groups that have supported this type of activity.

I don't see how this would be worse abuse than the system currently suffers.
In one case, people who donate money have something to say about the causes their money support. Right now, any well-connected askan who gets a wild hair up his tuchus about tznius controls the hareidi street.

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ


doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#16 running with scissors

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:19 PM

do you need to be a whale to give to save the whales?

Not necessarily a whale, but at least moderately overweight.
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#17 Sweet

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:35 PM

Not necessarily a whale, but at least moderately overweight.

LOL
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#18 Elana

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:28 PM

possible problems with the plan (great thinking, btw):

1. how many ppl on here do you think are giving to those tzedakkos? i doubt, too many.

2. i'm afriad that the baby will be spilled with the bathwater (is that how it goes?)

say, kupat ha'ir helps 1,000 families. 10, 20, 50 of them are those idiots. we are cutting teh support to Kupat ha'ir. now the rest, 990/980/950 legit nice needy families are without means of support.

#19 Shoshi

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:09 PM

Right now, any well-connected askan who gets a wild hair up his tuchus about tznius controls the hareidi street.


Why oh why the obsession about tzniut to the exclusion of all else?

#20 Sweet

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:34 PM

Why oh why the obsession about tzniut to the exclusion of all else?

Because everyone is frightened of sex.
The world has too many stupid people who are full of confidence, and smart people who are full of self-doubt.




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