ghorse tadalafilwhat happens if a female drinks cialis for menherbal viagra available in pakistanwann verschreibt arzt viagrawhere can i buy viagra in vancouver bccolor of viagra pilllevitra legalcialis dosage 5 mypurchase zithromax one dose chlamydiacan you get high off montelukast pillscaverject piu viagracialis eugene orusing vardenafiltrue glamour diet pillshome does viagra cost with no insurancebuying viagra in apoteket swedenbuy terbinafine cheapcan you get in trouble for buying viagra on craigslistwhat does disulfiram doturkey buy viagra over counterpriligy generico chi lha provatowill viagra make dick biggerfree 100 gm cialis sampleswhere can i get viagra nowviagra 100 pfizer salessingulair 4 mg packets available genericallygel capsules cialiswhat effect will viagraquetiapine as a sleeping pillwhat is the minimum age for having viagraviagra bad for spermsildenafil obesosstrattera online buyviagra natural quais saowill viagra hit u faster if chewedfinasteride how long shedding phase stayscialis black informationhow does viagra after ejectionssildenafil and take cashew nutbest diet pill on the market todaycan you get multipul erections from viagrahow long does azithromycin stay in the bodycelebrex and tylenol drug interactionsprednisone not working as wellfast heartbeat with levitraalex viagra amsterdamviagra allowed in dubaidoes montelukast sodium workviagra is available in abu dhabii took cialis and now have lower blood pressureprednisone cost in canadaanna nichole smith diet pillsxenical pills 2012how to bye cialis in montrealhigher viagra does the harder the erectionketoconazole cream prescriptioncialis online commercialscan i get viagra over the counter in the u.s.walgreen price viagrageneric plavix madeviagra snoringnovi sad nabavka cialis ili levitraadverse reaction to generic singulairdoes viagra work while ur drunkcheapest tadalafil substitute tadalafillevitra dosage effectivenesspurchasing tadalafil in the united kingdomtaking viagra under 18telugu channels midnight add on viagra tablets.doxycycline hyclate dose for dogs lyme diseasedwarf tadalafilwhere to get free viagra samplessingulair aerator motor model 96 costrevatio impotence drug eli lilly cocost of viagra at walmart without prescriptionwhere can i buy clomid safelylevaquin birth control pillpengalaman memakai obat viagra dan cialishave people died taking levitrawhen is escitalopram generic launch in uklipitor unsafewill 30 mg of levitra work any bettergenerique de paroxetineprednisone 20 mg 3 dayscelexa average costis there a shelf life to viagraindian made cialis is it safedrunk passed out viagrapill id gabapentinwhere to buy cialis in canada onlinenifedipine maximum daily dosehow long does it take ciprofloxacin 500mg to workcialis 100 real or notwhen will a doctor prescribe for viagrais there an opposite of viagraeffects of mixing viagra and redbulllevitra zungeordering brand name viagra onlineamoxicillin without prescriptions using pay palthe drug baclofen 10 mgreliable generic propecialuquid viagracan ddavp be used for overdose of plavixorder diflucan canadatamoxifen works bylevitra online for salecheap viagra 50 m ghow many levitra in a dayhot weather and levitraligne sp cialisbuy propecia 1mg in montrealviagra packet imagedoes cialis make it harder to cumhow long does fluconazole take to cure yeast infectionhow to buy safe cialistadalafil 05 mgindigestion from viagraolanzapine how long do they stay in your systemviagra from tescosbuy xenical malaysia onlineis viagra over the counter in quebeccan viagra be bought over the counter in spaini take viagra everydaytake viagra on a planeexiste o cialis genericoeffects of viagra and caduetbuy lisinopril 2.5 mgcialis enlargementbuy amoxil no rxdiflucan ringworm doseto much. cialiscelebrex once twice dayis it safe to order viagra onlinefreebies viagrahow many times can you take levitra in one dayproscar online purchasecan i use viagra during chemotherapyhow to use viagra tablets why it is usedhow long does 5mg of cialis stay in your systemgeneric cialis with prescriptionhow to tell counterfeit viagrais it ok to smoke weed and take cialisbest erection ever with viagrawhat is cialis called in saudisildenafil dose for raynaudscialis usa year saledoes viagra affect semengeneric cialis canada shippingviagra i rcdestimation of sildenafil dapoxetine by uvpurchase kamagra st by ajantahow to tell if a man has taken viagrasildenafil female paypalcialis discount purchasebronchitis and prednisone what to expectviagra reviews from usersherbal alternative viagrahow many 30mg cialis should i takeside effects of levitracialis 5 mg vs viagradiet pills advertisementscan you take viagra and viapro at the same timecialis in berlin kaufencan a psychiatrists prescribe viagrapatent expiry date for tadalafil in malaysiacialis for daily use packagingwho makes vardenafilabout viagra tablets ukcialis from canada dailyviagra vitamanscialis free trial phone numberkamagra sale price ukblue cross cost propeciacialis comercialcost of viagra in pakistanresults cialiskamagra to buy hkdiscount generic cialis pay with paypalbuy prednisone deltasonehumorous viagra cardswhat does legal viagra look likeviagra para rnviagra at cvs pharmancyis black ant like viagranew viagra expertemagrece brazilian diet pillspink viagra onlinerepubican socialismwhat does a viagra pill looks likecialis daily from canadabuy viagra online western unioncialis de 0,5cialis e20 ok if i take viagra 10levitra patent expiration date usdo i take vardenafil dailyviagra v cialis questionslevitra anwendungoz pills cialisviagra and golfcheapest sildenafil citrate prices onlinewhy is cialis better than viagrais toprol safe to take with viagrahow much liquid viagra can you takeorlistat side effects doseamoxicillin online strep throatorder amoxil 1gr online without prescriptionbuy generic cialis online canada paypalthere is viagra in round blue pillviagra side effects violenceis propecia safe while trying to concieveflagyl tablets overdosewhich pharmecy can buy viagra in dubaipriligy sales in singaporeviagra strokelevitra 10mg australiaviagra chargecialis with pehow to make viagra work bettercost of lexaprocan i use viagra every day 25mg in the age of 28farmacia online cialischeap vardenafil 10mg capsmuch does ketoconazole cream costcialis iceland150 milligram tabletof viagra for salebuy prednisone online for kidscanadian viagra companyside effects phentolamine vardenafilwhen did z pack antibiotic go generichow can i buy viagra online fastherb that compares to viagrahow long will a hardon last with cialissuper active sildenafil gelatin tabletswhere to buy viagra in thailand otcis buying fluconazole online safebuy propecia in dubaicialis btl peruman using viagra signsotc viagra at giant eagleviagra homeocan i buy azithromycin in pharmacy spainhistory of generic cialisviagra chennai onlinewill 5mg propecia work better than 3 mgis cialis badcan i take cialis and viagra on same daycan u buy viagra in storesbuy viagra one pillfree viagra samples without prescriptionviagra in singapore costsone dose of cipro uti affect pregnancyhow hard will a 100 mg viagracialis kaufen wienbactrim iv pediatric doseallergic viagraviagra generic nltamoxifen how does it workcialis and no insurancecialis how is workinggnc version of viagrano prescription viagra canada onlineliquid finasteride what isviagra which strengthis it okay to take lisinopril and viagracialis kupi u bihevery other day for 1mg propeciabuy nolvadex usanexium safe range for infantdoes cialis look like lisiniprilvand cialis 20prescription for flagyl tablets 400mgok to take statins with viagrawhat is the most cialis u can takemetoprololviagraviagra plus priligytake cialis 5mg every second daywhre i can get the viagra in chennaidiet pill successfulviagra sold streets of mexicozyprexa wafers 10mg onlinefor what is cialisis cialis available in kolkatase tomar priligy cialis juntoshow much for bottle of viagrabuy viagran germanybuy viagra individual useviagra likedrug in homeopathydiovan com viagrabuy chinese viagradirect viagrafastest delivery viagrafree levitra coupons for walgreenshoodia cactus diet pill slimming tab beam towhere can i buy clomid without a prescriptionwalmart cialis for daily usecheapest levitra cialisprednisone 6 day taper dosageif one 100mg viagra doesnt work can i take another onevegetal viagra, reviewingredient in generic lexaprocan women get pregant if guy on viagra or cialisiene viagra onlineciproud deal of the dayviagra and vietnam legalcialis 10mg multivitaminshow long you can fuck by taking viagrawhat happens when a girl eats viagracyalis stronger than viagranolvadex 10 buyvenal leakage and viagralong does viagra stay systemare diet pills goodtadalafil drops for muscle gainviagra au vietnamviagra dtctadalafil blue cross blue shieldcan i purchase lamisil cream at shoppers drug martcialis every day costhow much viagrathis is 40 viagraflagyl dose c diffcost of vibramycin without insurancewhere to order viagra in canadabuy hoodia diet pills infoclomiphene for salemixing adderall cialisdoes cialis work the first timegenereic viagraemail signup for viagrasigns symptoms propranolol overdosefluconazole 7 day course over the counter ukviagra legal in philippinebuy atorvastatin calcium onlinecialisontario canadacipro online purchaseneck pain with taking cialisdrug interactions oral fluconazoledeal on viagrais prednisone safe for liverwhat mg does doxycycline come inacyclovir eye drops side effects and dose in cathim caps y sildenafilwhy does cialis makes me last longercan i drink viagra whith prednisonewhere to buy cialis in singapore cliniclevitra in finlandgenerac canadian cialis no prescriptionlevitra takingdoes metronidazole 4oomg cost headaec in malewhere can i buy viagra in camdenis levetra like viagrabeli cialis generikviagra for sale canadaviagra price 50 mlorlistat 120mg online ukdo i need a prescription for cialis canadahow much does viagra weighviagra samples in the usaanybody tried generic viagraviagra 150 pricingviagra equivelentsviagra com trwhat size doses is cialis available ingeneric avodart usacan viagra make you go blindindications for vardenafilazithromycin 1 gram dosedoes levitra lose potency graduallyviagra and other pills like itlevitra makes face red.socialist viewscan u take pristiq with cialisdoes blue cross cover levitrahealth and fitness diet pillapotheke levitrado viagra work on girlshow does your dick gets while taking viagra and fuckingcialis bloddstreamhow quick diflucan works australiacialis bulacialis te koop nederlandbuy viagra bkkviagra from lloyds chemistcialis poisoningzovirax online orderthe ayurvedic viagraclomiphene citrate 50 mg for saleviagra 100 by pfizer pricecheap sildenafil uk sachetsviagra 50mg com 8 comprimidoswalgreens plavix genericschinese herb viagrabuy cipro in usaprices levitra walmartsandoz generic wellbutrin srlow dose prednisone sjogrensgeneric valtrex any goodlevitra klonopinviagra 100 mg effectivenessnatural foods that work like viagraefectos del green viagra chinaduration of viagrafind out if cialis is genuine30 mg prednisone for 5 dayscapping cialis2 day delivery cialisdoes viagra work with early ejaculationwhere to find cialis in montreabuy vardenafil with pay palwalgreens participate in cialis promise programcialis liver diseasewill the veteran cover propecia prescriptionsbuy generic levitra without prescription paypalthe safety of generic levitracipro dose upper respiratory infectionwhere can i buy genuine generic cialis100mg viagra splithow antidepressants workprednisone 50 mg for 5 days for costochondritiswomen viagra chocolatelisinopril taken with cialiscan viagra be imported into australiacialis black 200mg imagesviagra 25mg in indiadoes viagra lose strength potency over timeamoxil without prescription over the counter ukviagra formdiflucan pill and alcoholnexium hp7 for sale without prescriptionprice for 100mg viagraalternative for viagra men and womenkwikmed viagrabuy lasix in a scottish chemistwhat happrns if an 18 year old takes viagracipro antibiotic drugcialis lozengescan taking viagra cause impotenceis it safe to take amlodipine and viagra togetheravodart viagra interactionhow long will my erection last wit levitraeffect viagra old menlevitra prices brisbanewill i get in trouble for buying viagra from craigslistcialis professional next day deliverygeneric propecia prodaja u hrvatskojhow do you get your doctor to prescribe viagrafucked wild with viagrametronidazole tablets for chickens for salecheap pfizer viagra 100mgis there a purple pill thats viagrabuy generic viagra mastercardviagra is same for male and femalewhat happens if you take strattera without adhdnexium da daywhere to viagra in faridabadtopamax and borderline personality disorderdoes viagra work after round onedoes viagra promote hair growthboots cialis over the countertutorial delay spray viagrachinese tiger viagra red black pillshow long viagra need to usedo theyake a generic viagrageneric cialis pills for salepaypal viagra in vancouverviagran plus naturistametronidazole 500mg tab how to usetadalafil en farmaciaviagra de 5 mgcialis soft tabs deliverywhat is viagra safe to buy in conzemel mexicolasix online purchasedid wellbutrin xl work for youlevofloxacin drugs.combuy strattera cheapsildenafil 100mg review bodybuildingthe benefit of 10mg cialishow long does it take for cialis 5mg to kick inwellbutrin normal dosediuretic furosemide 40 mg take to workabdi ibrahim tadalafilviagra australia for womenviagra albuquerquelevitra cialis whichcan i eat food after taking viagraprecio de cialis generico en mexicopower full dos viagra francebuy metronidazole cream in nychow to recognize genuine cialisviagra online with consultationwhat happens when you take too much wellbutrinabra 100 viagrawhat increases the potency of levitraneurontin dosage maximum dosecan u take nyquil with viagrabull natural viagrais viagra dangeouse for 21 year oldlong maxalt workphenergan side effects how long do they lastcialis and coming

Jump to content


Photo

This is how I feel about the Beit Shemesh situation

Excellent article

  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#41 Monte Cristo

Monte Cristo

    Rebbe

  • Members
  • 1,752 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

This isn't about sexuality. It's about certain overzealous people insisting that everyone in their vicinity adhere to a uniform they feel comfortable with. It's about imposing their will on others, not protecting themselves from the non existent sexuality of eight year old girls. At least that's my hope. People who see eight year olds as sexual are not normal.

I don't understand what you're saying. Either eight year olds are sexual or they're not. If they're not, what they wear shouldn't be a problem for anyone.


Exactly, luckily it's only a few people. That doesn't detract from their ability to make others look bad sadly. The weak replies from the Hareidi community aren't helping, it's obvious that the actions of these people can't be attributed to it, but a stronger response is needed.
1) "I pray my wife has a sex addiction, because I'm more than happy to be an enabler" - Frummy frum
2) "Hanukah is about throwing spears at people who assimilate" - Rentsy
3) "Are you trying to say that consummating one's marriage is bittul Torah?" - Savannah
4) "Men are so insecure in their sexuality. If they see two men with a deep friendship -- gay. If they see a man who isn't constantly lusting after women -- gay" - Savannah
5) "Isn't a divine hora'at sha'ah an even better license to kill than whatever James Bond has?" - Rentsy
"D*mn right" - Snag
6) "Facebook is spiritual chametz, because one becomes inflated with one's sense self importance while sitting around doing nothing" - Rentsy
7) "I always thought belle was a woman........am i wrong?" - Village
8) "When searching for the common denominator for all the members of this site (marketing purposes), I discovered that all the participating members are 'black sheep' in their own cirlces. On Hashkafah.com, the mainstream is truly wacked" - Silent J
9) "oy. bible porn. that seems wrong" - Jewess
"I didn't write the script!" - Moshi
10) "I was recently involved in a discussion about the "Yeshiva Uniform", you know where jeans epitomize Satan, and God dresses like an Oreo cookie...." - Isreali4ever

#42 smishu

smishu

    Rebbe

  • Members
  • 1,271 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:49 PM

On a broader level, this whole issue seems to me to be a crisis of education systems / leadership. For all anyone can say that the thugs are 'not representative', the fact is that other groups of Jews do not have this problem. I'm yet to see a reform Jew spit at an 8 year old girl.

A lot of this relates to the policies that have been implemented by the 'gedolim' in terms of no education, loads of children for everyone, no work, and a separatist mentality. Anyone who thinks that these policies are not going to produce a cadre of angry young men who vent their frustration in antisocial ways is deluding themselves.

Rav Lichtenstein, in a sicha given over Chanuka, expressed his anguish at the lack of 'daas' that the Charedi leadership displays in its promotion of these policies. To quote R. Gil Student's summary of Rav Lichtenstein's views:



I tend to think that to the extent there is any ‘leadership’, the leaders don’t think in consequentialist terms whatsoever. I don’t think Rav Elyashiv sits down and thinks, “Well, if we deprive subject X from our children, then household income will be Y lower in 25 years time”. Rather it’s, “the holy gedolim before me were moser nefesh to keep the ‘pach shemen’ free of outside influences, and I must continue to do so. As for the consequences, it is up to us to follow what Hashem wants, and Hashem will provide for us”.

Basically, the system is only going to improve when the Charedim either grow too large or too annoying for the majority to continue subsidizing them. This will force them into the mainstream, and people with jobs are less likely to loiter around all day getting worked up about nonsense.


This is an excellent post. I guess the question is, is that ever going to happen, for Israel to actually start putting some responsiblity on the chareidi community. This community is very willing to take money, army exemptions, and free schooling, but only expects more and more without giving back. I am honestly scared for the future of Israel.

#43 smishu

smishu

    Rebbe

  • Members
  • 1,271 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:56 PM

This discussion is based on the two sides arguing about different things. Religious people are disturbed by (I'm searching for the word here... rampant? Free? Outgoing?) sexuality. The reason for this is not that they might just be tempted to rape her, and if she's eight, that would be bad (unlike if she was an adult). For personal, inwardly focused reasons, they just don't want to be exposed to it.
Children in certain dress can present such sexuality. It may not be alluring, it may not be "tempting" per se to an adult. But it is sexuality of the type that certain religious people don't want to be exposed to.
Furthermore, although the point hasn't been made here about tweens who appear older than they are, that presents not only the issue that I described above, but also the fact that they often look as sexually "relevant" as adults. In that scenario, nobody would disagree that the average man is affected by it. To be sure, the average man understands that an early developing girl is not fair game, even if she's wearing hot pants that say "Flirt" across the backside (which the article above would describe as being completely asexual, because after all, the girl is only sixteen and the age of consent in her state is 17.) But it is still an overt display of sexuality of the type that religious people may not be comfortable encountering. (See also, Eminem, @ss like that).


As I said in the other thread if someone doesnt want to "see" sexuality in the women around them should practice shmirat eiynayim. However, no matter how you spin it seeing sexuality in an 8 year old girl is disgusting, and the other of the article in the OP addresses this and I agree: seeing sexuality all around you and being so bothered by it even in inappropriate contexts is a direct result of the chareidi preoccupation of repressing sexuality/women in general and leads to a lot of misogyny.

#44 israeli4ever

israeli4ever

    Godol Hador

  • Members
  • 2,502 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:47 PM

The fact that it even needs to be pointed out that "their books say children are off limits" is pretty horrifying. One would think that we are talking about a bunch of neanderthals who run around naked, sticking it into anything that moves any time the mood happens to strike. Are we supposed to assume that all men would be child molesters if not for the social stigmas that are attached to having sex with little kids?

It's clear that the "three year olds" in biblical times were nothing like three year olds today. It is also quite obvious that almost none of those stories are good measuring sticks for deciding what is appropriate behavior nowadays,

Either Neanderthal men or upper class Greek citizens...
Disclaimer: The comments made by this poster do not necessarily represent an actual opinion, they are merely the latest output of an infinite amount of monkeys working on Shakespeare
________________________________



"Frumkeit without Mentchlichkeit is not Yiddishkeit!" - Razie

"If you don't sin... Jesus died for nothing."

"because teaching is all about obscuration and obfuscation.."
- Snag




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users