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Issues with being frum at work

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#21 LoveToLaugh

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:45 PM

By the way, LTL, I highly doubt that you are really just a 'tired frum mom" at work. And I bet you are more than just "good" at what you do. I bet you are much more skilled and dedicated than you give yourself credit for.

Thanks Shoshi....I think it depends on the day and time. I have my days where I feel like I'm a superstar teacher but other days I kinda feel like I just make it through. There was a point where I had a weekly training session with an awesome teacher who had a ton of great resources and I definitely was more on my game when she used to visit. I would like to get back to that point but its hard without enough outside push and motivation.
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.

#22 geekmom

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:58 PM

Interesting --- is this in NYC? (you dont have to share if you don't want obviously, its just somewhat suprising to see outright religious mockery and anti-semitisim here in NYC).


Nope, I'm down here in the South...the bible belt, supposedly. :fool:

#23 Garden Dmpls

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:10 PM

I find more hostility from non-religious Jews than from non-Jews. The non-Jews just accept whatever I do as my approach to G-d, as they are mostly believers. A few of the non-religious Jews are very anti-religious and extremely ignorant. One asked me why the Jews in Williamsburg kept their children locked up with bars on their windows. I asked him if he meant the ones that keep the children from falling out or the ones that kept the burglars from breaking in, something he never thought of in his rush to misjudgment. He is very confused by me as I don't fit the distorted image he has of a Chassidic Jew.

#24 LoveToLaugh

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

I find more hostility from non-religious Jews than from non-Jews. The non-Jews just accept whatever I do, as my approach to G-d, as they are mostly believers. A few of the non-religious Jews are very anti-religious. and extremely ignorant. One asked me why the Jews in Williamsburg kept their children locked up with bars on their windows. I asked him if he meant the ones that keep the children from falling out or the ones that kept the burglars from breaking in, something he never thought of in his rush to misjudgment. He is very confused by me as I don't fit the distorted image he has of a Chassidic Jew.

I also have found it to be a little sticky with other Jews who have different levels of Orthodoxy and tradition. Explaining that you won't shake hands with a man for religious reasons doesn't sit well with an MO person who thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Similarly, things such as leaving early for shabbos, not working on Tisha B'av and various kashrus issues will be very respected by those completely not in the know while someone who is Jewish and even somewhat religious might have issues with the fact that you are doing more than you have to do and its not REALLY necessary to follow those religious guidelines.
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.

#25 Shoshi

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:18 AM

You know, I have to say (I'm not frum but do observe many holidays and prefer not to work on Saturdays), that it's definitely been non-Jews who have been less understanding.
In Jewish places, it's been understood that everyone has different levels of observance and there's been an acceptance that some people are going to be out on certain days.

In non-Jewish offices, I can remember a couple of instances where I actually had problems (yes, even here in NYC!) requesting time off for Pesach and the chagim. Bosses would wait until the last minute to "approve" my time off for the holidays, and then even throw it up in my face afterward "You have taken a lot of vacation time lately...." (For the record, I responded that this was not "vacation" time that I took, but instead the days off for religious holidays that they are LEGALLY required to accommodate, a fact they were - believe it or not - unaware of.)

As an aside, regarding Tisha B'av: I never understood why Orthodox people in America don't work on Tisha B'av. When I lived in Israel, I seem to remember even haredim working on Tisha B'av (albeit while fasting of course).

#26 Garden Dmpls

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:20 PM

I work in a public high school and have never had trouble taking days, although a religious day means a deduction from my paycheck. My friend at another school was always hassled, although that is illegal. Most of the major holidays are off anyway, however in 1986, the DOE (then known as the Board of Education) decided to not include the second day of Pesach, as it was not concurrent with Easter. All the Jewish teachers, including the totally irreligious, took it as an insult and decided to take the day off. The non-Jews got worried about controlling the students (there were a lot of Jewish teachers then as it was one of the few a good jobs for a Shabbos observer) and many also took a sick day. In the middle school where I worked at the time, only two teachers showed. After that, Pesach has always been off, even if separate from Easter.

#27 Shoshi

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:48 AM

lol Garden Dmpls. I love the 1986 story.
I also always had to use vacation days when taking a day off for religious holidays. The difference is that an employer is forbidden to deny vacation if it is for a religious observance.

#28 Snag

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:25 PM

As an aside, regarding Tisha B'av: I never understood why Orthodox people in America don't work on Tisha B'av. When I lived in Israel, I seem to remember even haredim working on Tisha B'av (albeit while fasting of course).

The Halacha is clear that one should not work on tisha b'ac if possible. Could it be that you are remembering chareidim working on other fast days?
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#29 Shoshi

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:14 PM

No I specifically remember it being Tisha B'av. The company I worked at was mostly dati leumi and charedi people and everyone worked on Tisha B'av.

#30 LoveToLaugh

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:28 PM

I work in a public high school and have never had trouble taking days, although a religious day means a deduction from my paycheck. My friend at another school was always hassled, although that is illegal. Most of the major holidays are off anyway, however in 1986, the DOE (then known as the Board of Education) decided to not include the second day of Pesach, as it was not concurrent with Easter. All the Jewish teachers, including the totally irreligious, took it as an insult and decided to take the day off. The non-Jews got worried about controlling the students (there were a lot of Jewish teachers then as it was one of the few a good jobs for a Shabbos observer) and many also took a sick day. In the middle school where I worked at the time, only two teachers showed. After that, Pesach has always been off, even if separate from Easter.


Awesome story :).

its kinda super cool that the NYC public schools have off on a lot of Jewihs holidays such as RH, YK, and parts of Pesach.

Shoshi, I think many men work on Tisha Bav. Teachers and other women who have jobs relating to childrne usually have or take off.
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.

#31 Savannah

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:50 PM

As an aside, regarding Tisha B'av: I never understood why Orthodox people in America don't work on Tisha B'av. When I lived in Israel, I seem to remember even haredim working on Tisha B'av (albeit while fasting of course).

Just because people do work doesn't mean it's the ideal. If you can take off, you should.

#32 Shoshi

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

I suppose you could take off for every fast day, but is that realistic?

#33 Snag

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

I suppose you could take off for every fast day, but is that realistic?

again, there's a difference between not working on other fast days, which is a convenience issue, and not working on tish'a b'av, which is halachically recommended, if not exactly mandated.
"Spiritual wants and instincts are as various in the human family as are physical appetites, complexions, and features, and a man is only at his best, morally, when he is equipped with the religious garment whose color and shape and size most nicely accommodate themselves to the spiritual complexion, angularities, and stature of the individual who wears it."

"The despotism of heaven is the one absolutely perfect government. An earthly despotism would be the absolutely perfect earthly government, if the conditions were the same; namely, the despot the perfectest individual of the human race, and his lease of life perpetual. But as a perishable perfect man must die, and leave his despotism in the hands of an imperfect successor, an earthly despotism is not merely a bad form of government, it is the worst form that is possible."

-Mark Twain

#34 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:28 PM

I suppose you could take off for every fast day, but is that realistic?

There are only 6 of them, including YK, so it is not so inconceivable... Also some people genuinely DO "get sick" when they fast, so even taking a sick day wouldn't be dishonest...
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#35 Shoshi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:59 AM

Taking off for all 6 fast days would mean using up more than 1/2 to 1/3 of most people's yearly vacation days.
That is not even taking into account the other chagim. How is that realistic?

#36 Kalashnikover_Rebbe

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

Taking off for all 6 fast days would mean using up more than 1/2 to 1/3 of most people's yearly vacation days.
That is not even taking into account the other chagim. How is that realistic?

Call in sick, like I said. Or take a "personal" or "mental health" day if they are available....
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#37 LoveToLaugh

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:32 PM

Taking off for all 6 fast days would mean using up more than 1/2 to 1/3 of most people's yearly vacation days.
That is not even taking into account the other chagim. How is that realistic?

Isnt Yom Kippur usually a day off in many firms?

I think the shorter fasts (asara btevs and taanis esther, possibly even tzom gedalia) are doable with working. The summer ones are much harder, especially T' Bav with the fast being 24 hours AND the limits on what you are allowed to do before chatzos.
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.





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