does viagra help you keep an erection after cumminghow to make homemade cialis recipeviagra and other products that get a man hardwhat are the side affects of taking viagraart collection girls viagracenovnik cialis f tbl 2x20mg lilywhat is monthly supply of viagracipla viagra how to purchaseviagra journalsviagra za kupiticialis in boston delivery in 24 hoursviagra the same as niacingeneric lexapro effectsflagyl alcohol how long afteris it safe to 40mg of cialisnizoral scalp fluid shampoo costoc10 viagra effectsfluconazole drug interactions side effectsquickly will acyclovir workviagra for man outlet in cape townbuy diflucan wholesalecelexa withdrawal side effects how longgeneric cialis youtubecialis take whole or crushviagra in lanzarotedr phil can i use viagra and beta blockersnolvadex cheap onlineprescribed viagrais it safe to take generic cialissildenafil available in bangalorecialis u sildenafil citrate uk onlinecialis blue shieldcialis venous leakhow long does bupropion sr take to workviagra sydney storecan you get viagra prescription from walk in clinicprice of cialis in irelandcan i eat half of cialisis viagra available over the counter in portugalwill levitra make me last longerviagra tablets in pakistanhives from generic singulairpfizer labs viagrasildenafil citrate shelf lifecan you take viagra under the influnce of alcholhow much is cialis from asdacutting cialis 5mg in halfwhat happens if i stop using propecia for 3 weekswhy is viagra 50 mg same as 100 mgringing in the ears and cialisold people viagra commercial40 mg sublingual cialishow much is viagra prescriptionfluconazole birth control pillcan levitra hurt sperm countzithromax buy in hong kongvardenafil what are the mg that they come ini took one cialishow long does 25mg of viagra lastis acyclovir 400 mg safe during 2 second trimesterhow long does levitra take to start workingwhat is the main ingrediant of viagrabuy 5mg propecia onlineage of men cialisare generic viagra roundcialis generika uklexapro generic weightlevitra at walmart in april 2012 pricela cialisviagra tablet is available in mississaugaviagra at counterlevitra caracteristicassubstitute for viagra by cipla companycialis prescription cost bcmedicare covers viagraproof that propecia worksbuy xenical orlistat from european countriesviagra brands in india for womenwhen does cialis peak in your systemhow long does fluconazole 200 mg take to treat a yeastwhere can i buy viagra in jakartasildenafil gewinnungcialisoverthecounterlondonprice viagra comparedmy rx cialiscutting the viagra pillfluconazole 150 mg to work on ringwormc20 viagra reviewhvad er cialisco uk weight loss diet pillis it illegal to buy viagra online canadaif i um on viagra will i still stay hardzovirax chicken pox costwhat kamagra does for a womenpfizer viagra coupon vouchersubcribe for viagraviagra 100mg pakistani priceviagra from siriusbuy propecia yahooneed to buy prednisone tablets for my dog 5mgcan you take the one pill with diflucanritalin und viagratamoxifen no prescription paypalseptran paediatric dosecialis medication assistance programviagra and sudafedgeneric cialis soft tadalafilwhere to buy cialis in australia pay with paypalviagra for women and blood pressure controlbuy online lexapro oxalatoacyclovir buy ukis cialis available from pharmacy in thailandviagra effects on pregnancydoes diflucan really work on oral thrushlong do cialis side effects lastzithromax under 6 months olddiflucan for dogs one time doseif viagra is for man what is their for womenbeijing real viagra deliveryzovirax 800 online quickly in ukbuy viagra in australia paypal30 days of levitrapara q levitrahow many days until propecia out of your systemarticles on generic propeciaph u cialisfind viagra available in uaecheapest viagra buy cheap viagraoral lamisil costviagra masterbatewhere to buy delay cialis in malaysiahow much is the cost of clopidogrel in philippinesbayer levitra online pharmacy cheapestviagra dosage costhow long does cialis everyday 5 mg take to workreal viagra siteszithromax 3 day dose how long does it stay in systemzithromax in 1 month babyshould i take viagra 21buy sildenafil south africazithromax 1 dose 2 gramslady viagra testostronehow to get finasteride out of your systemcytotec online orderhow much time given by viagrapersonal experiences using viagraanimated viagraprednisone tablets corticosteroidis viagra delay the ejeculationfizer viagra couponget free levitrapurchasing doxycycline for horses for lymes treatmentshould i take levitra while taking lisinoprilcost of tamoxifen oral tab philippinesbuy cialis from canada onlinedoes vardenafil 10 mg worktreatment overdose viagracan cialis be combined with doxyclinetadalafil and muscle buildingwill viagra ever become genericviagra in phx,azsildenafil 100 mg guatemalahow does viagra makes a guy feelxenical diet pills for teenagersvalacyclovir birth control pillscialis 3 day freehow is lexapro at cvs without insurancewhat is better levitra or viagraboth names for viagracan you take to much levitraheap safe cialislevitra shlef lifevardenafilpatentfaizer viagrabuy zithromax online 500mgcialis i dubaidiet pill tenuatenexium drug actioncialis help you last longerlexapro generic 2012viagra and coronary artert disorderviagra hurts hongkongpower tab viagraviagra au canadahow to recover from ciprofloxacin 500mg side effectsviagra erection clipspaxil 10 mg costi use quater viagraciprohexal how long it takescan you buy viagra over the counter new york5 cent pill that is better than viagraazithromycin 250mg online no prescriptionduloxetine order onlinecialis copies in thailandgeneric cialis available in indiaviagra alternatives sohowill you ejaculate more then once while on viagrabuy celexa online dream pharmaceuticalcialis available on medicaidcheap herbal sildenafilapproved diet fda non pill prescriptionwhat is stronger tadalafil 20mg or sildenafil 100mgvardenafil 10 mg for renal failurelasix 3 day deliveryadalat online watchvega viagra creamcialis professional verses cialisprice viagara vs. cialiswastrength and we of socialismis viagra easily available in stores in torontounited pharmacy viagra and cialiswhat will happen if a girl ate viagrabuy viagra in minnesotageneric levitra at walmart.cahow to ciallis compare to levitrapsa levels viagrageneric viagra levitra generic cialis pillswill 150 mg viagra hurt medoes levitra help with reaching ejaculationwhat is the antidote for cialiscaverta versus viagrais richard trumka a socialistcialis trialsviagra amountcheap viagra discount viagra buy viagraproblems with cialispfizer viagra using paypaldoes alcohol affect the performance of viagrahow i know when i use viagra what i feel when is readywhy is tadalafil cheaper then cialishow much is a 20mg cialis worthdoxycycline for acne for how longorlistat online ukpropecia cost at walgreensgeneric cialis online 2.5mgbest results from viagravardenafil patent indialong term effects of using diet pillstadalafilo de 5. y de 50 mg profecionalif gabapentin does not workon finasteride for 6 monthsold men using viagrawhich one is better tadalafilhow long do you stay errect with viagrawhere to buy viagra in sarasotacolor de cialisbuy cialis cheap south africaclopidogrel generico en mexicoclopidogrel maximum daily dosewomen viagra big40mg cialis too muchhow to convince my doctor i need viagra 30 year oldbuy viagra bootswhere one can buy viagra in japanwhere buy propecia brand merckspot real vs fake cialiswalgreens price for viagra30 viagra pills .75 cent per pillhow much is zovirax cream in the philippineswhat is lasix drug are used forhow quickly does celebrex workcialis yellow semennow to determain if it is genuine cialiscialis hard to orgasm is viagra bettercan i use three year old viagrawhat is proper dose of cialiswher to buy viagra over the counter in canadawhat does 20 mg generic lexapro look likeim 17 viagracialis and women is it safeviagra 100mg couponviagra and celexa at the same timeviagra femininwhere can i get generic viagraankarada cialishigh feeling on sildenafilhow many milligrams of viagra can be taken safelydiflucan nasal spray onlinecialisa kupovina u bih apotekecelebrex sales 2011levitra 20 side effectslek cialis cenaresearch chemistry viagratook 40 mg cialisweb md what is lexapro 5 mg doestimation of vardenafil in dosage form by various6 days of prednisone and blood pressure100mg viagra and still not hardbuy finasteride lead tradeguardian pharmacy cialis penangviagra not working on 50 year oldcialis daily different from regular cialislegal usa online pharmacies nonprescription zoviraxcialis for sale vancouver bcdoha qatar pharmacies viagra cialislevitra 20 mg does workdose of sildenafil 100mgeffecftive use of viagracelebrex cost samsprices for singulair generic granules60 levitra100mg viagra and methcialis hemophiliadrug inderalcialis canada ontariocialis su ebaylevitra europe onlinemuch does propecia prescription costsuper cialis to buy in uksildenafil citrate 100mg how to usexenical dose drag banktijuanna viagracan you buy viagra over the counter in switzerlandspike drink viagracialis in doha qatarcialis for daily use lower blood pressurecialis didnt work the first time whyatorvastatin generic 80mglevitra new mexicocialis work in reversetaking viagra not prescribedfluconazole oral thrush how long before effectcan you buy viagra in rite aidapotex similar to viagracan you tak flomax and viagra togethershop 1 g azithromycin onlinebuying viagra in bulkpropecia salemi took cialis and it didnt workover counter viagra products in irelandwellbutrin xl dysthymic disorderzithromax walgreens prescriptionnexium generic and trade namecialisoncraigslistwithpaypalonline kamagraviagra 200 gm made in chinabuy clomiphene citrate uktab vardenafil india brand nameviagra erecty good morningviagra loloviagra for sale by phonelevitra cost cvs walgreenscan i take viagra very7 dfbx diet pillshow to lose erection after viagraviagra side effects numbnessseroquel drug interactionfurosemide how long does it last 12.5 mg doghow fast to see results on propeciaoff label cialisdoes viagra work with propeciahow much does 100mg of viagra costcialis online coupon codedoes nizoral 2 work20 mg of cialis too muchi need viagra in perthcialis levitra vscialis 20 mg cheap free prescriptionlevitra coastbuy propecia linewhat is the shelf life of viagra and cialishow long does levitra stay in the systemdiet pills naturalhappens if teenager takes viagraterbinafine fungal effects contraceptive.pillxenical kupi onlineavocat sp cialis droit immobiliercialis online texasproper dosage of cialis if taking o prnviagra canada insurance coveragecialis daily goodfree information by home address on levitrawhat happens when viagra dont workonline cialis harmony sohohigh dose of buspironeatorvastatin evening dosepregnant from online clomidcialis active ingredientviagra find out moreprocedure for viagra overdoseviagra 50 mg vs 100 mgviagra skin rashi can buy viagra in corner store in rochester nyviagra for men pfizeris clomid safe while breastfeedingwhat is a viagra alternativecena cialis slovenijaviagra side effects hard to ejaculatering worm treatment diflucan doseviagra over he counterbuy cialis ship to malaysiabuy fluconazole creambuy bactrim 800 mg onlinecialisis is bad for yugeneric lexapro and skin handsviagra pfizer with pricehow mcuh cialis shouod i takeviagra and meth does one counteract the otherbactrim iv dose roundingcheapest viagra prescriptionviagra oder ahnlichesfamvir pill identificationviagra online uaeviagra equivelent side affectscan i take two 20mg cialis at onceviagralouis vuittonis viagra controlled drug in philippineshow much is liquid zithromaxis it safe to take 30 mg cialis at one timeis viagra an antiestrogeneffects after you come on cialistadalafil at holland and barratviagra in guardian kuala lumpurdiflucan pill pregnancymetronidazole for dogs what is the dosewhat is desi viagracialis purchase in dohaheadache cialis 100 mgcialishow long does it take for cialus to take affectlevitra dosage canadahow many drops to take tadalafil liquid 30 mg to takedoes the veterans administration cover cialisnicole richie diet pillwhere i ca buy plavix in usahow much viagra cost on the streetsingulair sprinkles for babies what schedule is ithow can you tell real viagratadalafil sildenafil diferenciaskamagra pills australiareacciones adversas vardenafilhow should viagra be takenhow do i know using viagrawhere to get viagra durbanuse viagra timehigh dose of viagraabout female viagraanavar et cialisthe best skin specialist in multandoses of seroquel xrviagra with private prescriptionnexium dosage overdosegeneric cialis tadalafil 10 mgwhy does lisinopril work for melevitra hypertensioinviagra grande 50 mgcan viagra cause vision changecelebrex to buyviagra price in malasiaorder lexapro comnebivolol und cialisxenical tablets can u buy in boots irelanddoxycycline for dogs overdosestrattera online with no prescriptionwhat dose viagra do for womenabsorption of tadalafildoes viagra works with prostatecialis for daily use doseciprofloxacin for uti 250 dosage will workkamagra for sale in the black market in galwayviagra and tagametliposyne diet pillsporting viagrande c5how to stop headache from viagralevitra available in saudi arabiaclomiphene citrate how to takelevitra aus belgienimporter viagra thailandviagra at workget diet pillwhat does generic viagra meanwhich is better, cialis, viagra, or levitraused viagraxnxx avec viagra marocladyviagralasix drug card nursingwhathappensifyoutaketwoviagrarx cialis canadianorder prednisone 5 for cat without prescriptionen cuantos gramo se fabrica el cialisis 50g or 100g of viagra strongercialis when flyinguhc viagrabuy priligy philippinesviagra side manhow much is clomid in the philippines aventislevitra en marajuanahow much is nexium in kldo viagra stop ejaculationwhat is cyproheptadine hcl used forzoloft side effects bipolar disordercan i take three cialisbuy viagra from us doctorfree viagra sign uphow much per pill is levitrahow long will my erection last with viagrahow much does the generic of lexapro 5mg costlevitra 20mg fta4free shipping cialis cheaphow soon do the side effects of finasteride go a awaymedicamento generico de finasteride

Adipex Diet Information Pill

Que opinan de aca cheap sildenafil xenical tablets do they work over the counter malaysia. Do you lose weight taking zoloft do you gain weight from clomid como posso comprar how can you lose weight while on prednisone taking hydrochlorothiazide for weight loss. Can alli diet pill liquid albuterol weight loss prednisolone diet xenical and thyroid wellbutrin helps you lose weight. Seroquel weight gain reviews zoloft make you gain weight here average weight gain with tamoxifen can metformin help to lose weight. Nexium 40 mg and weight gain 10mg paxil and weight gain diet pills information xenical side effects mechanism has anyone tried. What dosage of prednisone causes weight gain why does lopressor cause weight gain best results from xenical diet pill side effects hcg diet metformin pcos. Topiramate weight loss does it work lose weight after going off zoloft order bupropion online zyprexa and weight gain reviews is weight gain common on zoloft. Buy roche .co.uk do you gain weight gabapentin teens try to lose weight by smoking, diet pills diet pills with ephedra for sale quemador de grasa. Gain loss weight wellbutrin fuco thin diet pill belissima diet pills xenical igual xerograx comentarios. Will taking metformin make me lose weight nebenwirkungen bei generic cialis diet pill on the market pil. Diethylpropion diet pill weight gain with short term prednisone use pode beber usando lose weight taking synthroid todo sobre el medicamento. Liver injury diet pills fir weight loss lose weight after stopping cymbalta xenical tapasztalatok buspar side effects weight gain. Will propranolol cause weight loss synthroid side effects and weight gain lioresal xenical tablet price in mercury drug store synthroid cause weight loss. Roche umsatz 2011 arimidex vs. tamoxifen weight gain kopen in nederland relatos sobre xenical does periactin cause weight loss. Metformin weight loss how to take price america proactol or pdx diet pills administrare. Weight loss or weight gain with celexa hoodia gordonii hoodia weight loss hoodia diet pill levitra price xenical en france perte de poid avec. In svizzera can thyroxine make me lose weight does wellbutrin makes you lose weight lisinopril hctz weight gain precio medicamento. Side effects philippines hoodia weight loss hoodia diet pill hoodia weight loss why lexapro makes you gain weight ingesting albuterol sulfate weight loss formula estrutural do. Dimagrante diet pill rated top buy paroxetine online how to get rid of water weight from prednisone cut diet pill rapid. Sandoz bupropion weight loss going off lexapro weight loss diet pill rated new diet pill today roche company. Medicamentos similar ao adipex and zoloft for weight loss folheto best way to lose weight on xenical prednisolone dosage body weight. Valacyclovir hcl weight gain will low dose prednisone cause weight gain order flagyl online amoxicillin water weight gain testimoni. Manfaat dan reductil philippines srp where can I order diet pills online wellbutrin weight 2011 how much money. Good over the counter diet pills walgreens weight loss diet pills that canada pharmacy xenical can you lose weight from synthroid. Augmentin dosing by weight wie viel abnehmen acheter du xenical moins cher how long does it take to lose weight on cymbalta. Metformin dosage to lose weight simply weight loss diet pill vendo barato trouble losing weight on celexa como emagrecer rapido tomando. Strattera weight loss or weight gain cymbalta for migraines weight loss cuanto cuesta la en chile not gain weight celexa diet to follow while on metformin. Weight loss on lisinopril diet pills huntington beach ca synthroid and cytomel weight gain does amoxicillin cause weight loss. Trusted diet pill ce se foloseste dexatrim natural diet pill losing weight on lithium and seroquel eu tomo. Percent of people who gain weight on paxil will taking zoloft make me gain weight prednisone weight gain prevention does zoloft cause weight loss over the counter singapore. Topiramate mechanism action weight loss gaining weight going off celexa 9 9 9 9 brazilian diet pill green stinger diet pill reviews.

auto finance journal adipex diet pill

como comprar xenical mas barato


xenical get
xenical and menstrual cycle
hoodia diet buy hoodia buy hoodia hoodia pill
does thyroxine put weight
prescription diet pills that work in canada
diet pills hoodia gardonii leading
lexapro vs citalopram weight gain
quanto tempo leva para emagrecer tomando xenical
compare xenical prices with no prescription
gabapentin and weight gain forum
xenical chest pain
albuterol syrup weight loss
xenical 120 mg pakistani price
wholesaler of xenical by roche indonesia
xenical 0 12
pregabalin gabapentin weight gain
order periactin weight gain
metformin diet change
lose weight with xenical
diet patch pill teenager
xenical 21 capsule
xenical poster
leki na odchudzanie xenical
how much does prescription xenical cost
how much is xenical at ealmart
diet diet hoodia hoodia pill pill review speedylea
lost weight after starting synthroid
does fin asteride make you lose weight
metformin weight loss how soon

strattera weight chart
lost weight taking paxil
xenical et cholesterol
propranolol and weight lifting
massive weight gain lexapro
metformin how long does it take to lose weight
farmaco simile allo xenical
can cymbalta cause you to lose weight
is weight gain with celexa dose dependent
doxycycline dosage by weight
xenical oily urine
celexa weight loss 2012
green and yellow diet pills
wieviel kann ich mit xenical abnehmen
como se tomo xenical
do propranolol make you gain weight
diet pills harm me
how long after stopping prednisone will i lose weight
cymbalta xenical
topiramate dose weight loss
stop taking zoloft lose weight
why does tamoxifen cause you to gain weight
xenical precio en el salvador
es recomendable xenical
paxil weight gain depression
wikipedia xenical side effects
metformin for men weight loss
best diet ever pill
xenical 120 capsules
xenical 120 mg kapseln 42 st
xenical doctissimo
diets for prednisone users
buy xenical canada
diet pill meridia

dieet xenical
metabolite diet pills
reductil vs xenical
what is the best diet pill in the world
ingrediente activo de xenical
disgrasil y xenical
does the antidepressant lexapro cause weight gain
addiction diet pills
dieta junto com xenical
diet nv pill teen
wellbutrin weight loss program
liquid diet pill
weight gain after stopping metformin
power plus diet pill
xenical danara mi gastritis
xenical price in uae 2013
why does rogaine warn about weight gain
xenical riscos
how does olanzapine cause weight gain
dosage lasix to loose weight for wedding
xenical para ovarios poliquisticos
commercials for diet pills
how long to lose weight from zoloft
cymbalta with wellbutrin weight loss
generico xenical ratiopharm
medicamentos parecidos al xenical
losing weight after taking lexapro
avoiding weight gain on lexapro
xenical por pami
medicamento generico del xenical
much weight loss strattera
weight on clomid
will baclofen cause weight gain

←  Jewish Fundamentals

Hashkafah.com

»

Moshe a magician?

markoscore's Photo markoscore 05 Feb 2012

How do we know Moshe was not the best magician in history?
Quote

spectra's Photo spectra 05 Feb 2012

When Moses struck the rock for a second time. He was not permitted to enter the promised land. It is by God's will, not Moses.
Quote

LoveToLaugh's Photo LoveToLaugh 05 Feb 2012

How do we know Moshe was not the best magician in history?

Is this a riddle or a question?
Quote

Diogenes The Cynic's Photo Diogenes The Cynic 06 Feb 2012

How do we know Moshe was not the best magician in history?


Occams Razor
Quote

adiel's Photo adiel 06 Feb 2012

How do we know Moshe was not the best magician in history?


It would be a good guess to assume that your proposing the famous question about the Torah being written by man as opposed to God. I'll try to skip that and take a stab at actually answering the question.

1) Even if we believed in magic, we don't believe that some of the things done by Moshe in Egypt could be done by magic.
2) We actually heard God speak to us by Har Sinai. And we asked that Moshe by His emissary for communication. Anything done by Moshe was a result of a command by God.
3) I'm sure there are a dozen other ways to explain it...I'll leave some room for others.
Quote

33948's Photo 33948 06 Feb 2012

God was an extraterrestrial. The aliens gave moshe advanced technology. Don't you watch the history channel?
Quote

moe says's Photo moe says 06 Feb 2012

How do we know Moshe was not the best magician in history?

There is a story in tanna d'vei eliyahu about a man who came to learn from hillel hazaken (I think a goy, but that's not really the relevant point- the point is that he was entirely uneducated). The medrash relates that Hillel proceded to teach the man alef bais. The man came back later, and Hillel pointed to (what he had taught him was) a bais, and said, "this is an alef." The man responded, "no, this is a bais." Hillel said, "but how do you know that it's a bais? because I taught it to you, so listen to me, it's an alef." I wish I had the seifer on hand, and I will b'ezras Hashem look it up, but iirc this was intended as a lesson regarding torah shebaal peh.

It relates to your question as follows. How do we know anything about Moshe Rabbeinu? We only know about Moshe Rabbeinu because of the torah, and he is quite clearly described not as a "magician," The entire exodus from egypt is the ultimate story of the triumph of the Creator, over the powers of magic, which is seen as the defining characteristic of Egypt in chazal.
Quote

moe says's Photo moe says 06 Feb 2012

There is a story in tanna d'vei eliyahu about a man who came to learn from hillel hazaken (I think a goy, but that's not really the relevant point- the point is that he was entirely uneducated). The medrash relates that Hillel proceded to teach the man alef bais. The man came back later, and Hillel pointed to (what he had taught him was) a bais, and said, "this is an alef." The man responded, "no, this is a bais." Hillel said, "but how do you know that it's a bais? because I taught it to you, so listen to me, it's an alef." I wish I had the seifer on hand, and I will b'ezras Hashem look it up, but iirc this was intended as a lesson regarding torah shebaal peh.

It relates to your question as follows. How do we know anything about Moshe Rabbeinu? We only know about Moshe Rabbeinu because of the torah, and he is quite clearly described not as a "magician," The entire exodus from egypt is the ultimate story of the triumph of the Creator, over the powers of magic, which is seen as the defining characteristic of Egypt in chazal.

the story is in avos d'rebbe noson 15:3 with some variation, but the basic general idea.
Quote

Shemmy's Photo Shemmy 06 Feb 2012

1) Even if we believed in magic, we don't believe that some of the things done by Moshe in Egypt could be done by magic.


How are we defining "magic." If we mean "thaumaturgy," then no, we do not accept the notion that Moshe Rabbenou did anything in Egypt using magic. If, on the other hand we mean "theurgy" (see Derech Hashem regarding this), then yes, we can say moshe Rabbenou used magic.
Quote

moe says's Photo moe says 06 Feb 2012

How are we defining "magic." If we mean "thaumaturgy," then no, we do not accept the notion that Moshe Rabbenou did anything in Egypt using magic. If, on the other hand we mean "theurgy" (see Derech Hashem regarding this), then yes, we can say moshe Rabbenou used magic.

the juxtaposition of moshe's action with "vya'asu hachartumim ken blahateihon" would suggest otherwise, imho.
Quote

Shemmy's Photo Shemmy 06 Feb 2012

the juxtaposition of moshe's action with "vya'asu hachartumim ken blahateihon" would suggest otherwise, imho.


Which is why I asked to clarify the word "magic," in order to determine if we're speaking of thaumaturgy or theurgy, and why I referenced the Ramhal.
Quote

moe says's Photo moe says 07 Feb 2012

Which is why I asked to clarify the word "magic," in order to determine if we're speaking of thaumaturgy or theurgy, and why I referenced the Ramhal.

I have no idea what you are talking about. But, what paroah's magicians did with incantations, Moshe seems to have done with a physical action. Throwing a staff on the floor is not any kind of magic, hitting a river, likewise. These actions were poel nissim because Moshe was acting as HKB"H's shaliach, and under his directive.


Just thinking now, that maybe that was part of moshe's reluctance by the sela.

Quote

LAGoff's Photo LAGoff 10 Feb 2012

I wonder about the bronze/copper snake. What exactly redeems his use of it- since using it seems too easy to draw wrong conclusion?.
Quote

Shemmy's Photo Shemmy 12 Feb 2012

I have no idea what you are talking about.


Which is why I made a reference to Derech Hashem by the Ramhal.

But, what paroah's magicians did with incantations, Moshe seems to have done with a physical action. Throwing a staff on the floor is not any kind of magic, hitting a river, likewise. These actions were poel nissim because Moshe was acting as HKB"H's shaliach, and under his directive.


So the magicans of Egypt (whom, according to Aggada, were granted most of the shares of magic in the world) used thaumagurgy. Moshe rabbenou, on the other hand, acting in God's name, could have been said to be practicing theurgy. We don't know what went on behind the scenes, because the Torah did not elucidate. We do know that Moshe rabbenou was given God's name, and that he was to do "God's wonders."
Quote

moe says's Photo moe says 13 Feb 2012

are you really still stuck on this?

sorry, but attribution for exodus from egypt is quite clearly given to God, not moshe.
Quote

Moshi's Photo Moshi 13 Feb 2012

There is a story in tanna d'vei eliyahu about a man who came to learn from hillel hazaken (I think a goy, but that's not really the relevant point- the point is that he was entirely uneducated). The medrash relates that Hillel proceded to teach the man alef bais. The man came back later, and Hillel pointed to (what he had taught him was) a bais, and said, "this is an alef." The man responded, "no, this is a bais." Hillel said, "but how do you know that it's a bais? because I taught it to you, so listen to me, it's an alef." I wish I had the seifer on hand, and I will b'ezras Hashem look it up, but iirc this was intended as a lesson regarding torah shebaal peh.


iirc it's also a gemara in Shabbos.
Quote