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Rav Yaakov Yosef Addresses the Issue of Mamzeirus


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#1 Pinchas

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:31 AM

http://www.theyeshiv...-Mamzeirus.html


In a weekly shiur given by HaGaon HaRav Yaakov Yosef, the rav last week addressed the issue of mamzeirus and non-frum weddings.

The rav explained that he believes if a rav must be mesader kedushin for a non-frum couple he should adopt the position of HaGaon HaRav Eliyahu Bakshi Doron Shlita and use pasul witnesses. The rav spoke of the differences between frum and non-frum couples, and the understanding in the religious world that a husband and wife remain loyal to one another, the concept of kedushin.

The fear is that a kosher chupah may lead to mamzerim among non-frum couples, with the rav explaining the women in these marriages are not always faithful and then if children result from forbidden unions the result is mamzeirus. The rav feels there are solutions for most halachic issues but not mamzeirus, prompting him to recommend using pasul witnesses, like the fathers of the chosson and kallah.


By having an invalid chupah, then at least if the worst occurs the children are not mamzerim.
“If the couple does tshuva and becomes shomer mitzvos, they can always have a kosher chupah at that time and their children can come to the chupah and rejoice with them” he adds.

One of the questions posed to the rav are the brachos recited under the chupah since the chupah is invalid. The rav explains that the mesader kedushin tells the tzibur to recite Baruch Hu U’Varuch Shemo for each bracha, at which time the mesader kedushin says “למדני חוקיך”, thereby eliminating the bracha levatala.

The rav explained that many rabbonim do not use this method, admitting it is quite problematic but undoubtedly the lesser of the evils that must be addressed when marrying a non-frum coupl


This is disturbing! Why should we assume the worst in people... why should we deprive chilonim of the mitzvah of a proper marriage! They came to a Rabbi to do a mitzvah how can we stop them? If we are worried about people being unfaithful why stop at non-frum? What about frum people!? Why don't we just do our jobs and let Hashem worry about the mamzarim?

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For the record, IRL he is a really nice guy! - HappyDuck, Z"L


#2 paganyid

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:30 PM

why do they care if the eidim are pasul? If they care they care, if not not...

#3 warren

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:57 PM

why do they care if the eidim are pasul? If they care they care, if not not...

Couples who care might still not be getting a kosher wedding - perhaps the local rabbi thinks that people with internet connections are too prone to stray (an article at ynet quotes R Yosef as blaming the internet for producing mamzerim). Or perhaps they go mixed swimming.

And if they didn't want a halachic wedding, why obligate them to get a fake one? Let them register at the Interior Ministry as married without the rabbi.
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism

If not now, when? Because I have lunch plans.

Purple is indeed very important

The Uncertainty Principle. It proves we can't ever really know... what's going on. So it shouldn't bother you. Not being able to figure anything out. Although you will be responsible for this on the mid-term. - "A Serious Man"

#4 Rentsy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:32 PM

Yes, when it comes to public policy, we might decide it is better for people to not do a mitzva to prevent them from doing horrible sins.
רמב"ם הלכות תשובה פרק העשירי, הלכה ב

העובד מאהבה - עוסק בתורה ובמצוות והולך במתיבות החוכמה לא מפני דבר בעולם, לא מפני יראת הרעה ולא כדי לירש הטובה, אלא עושה האמת מפני שהוא אמת

הלכה ג

אהבה גדולה יתרה רבה עזה עד מאד, עד שתהא נפשו קשורה באהבת השם ... וכל שיר השירים משל הוא לענין זה

#5 warren

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:44 AM

Yes, when it comes to public policy, we might decide it is better for people to not do a mitzva to prevent them from doing horrible sins.

When we don't blow shofar on Shabbat Rosh Hashanah or take the arba minim on Shabbat Sukkot, we don't pretend to do it, with fake berachot.
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism

If not now, when? Because I have lunch plans.

Purple is indeed very important

The Uncertainty Principle. It proves we can't ever really know... what's going on. So it shouldn't bother you. Not being able to figure anything out. Although you will be responsible for this on the mid-term. - "A Serious Man"

#6 Shoshi

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:16 AM

I have no words...
Who is this rabbi anyway?

#7 warren

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:30 AM

.
Who is this rabbi anyway?

Well if he was someone unknown ... but he's a son of R Ovadia Yosef, a former Shas politician (in the Jerusalem city council and in the Knesset) and currently a neighborhood rabbi in Jerusalem.
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism

If not now, when? Because I have lunch plans.

Purple is indeed very important

The Uncertainty Principle. It proves we can't ever really know... what's going on. So it shouldn't bother you. Not being able to figure anything out. Although you will be responsible for this on the mid-term. - "A Serious Man"

#8 Rentsy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

Rav Bakshi Doron was the Chief Rabbi of Israel.

This was the minhag in Morocco.
רמב"ם הלכות תשובה פרק העשירי, הלכה ב

העובד מאהבה - עוסק בתורה ובמצוות והולך במתיבות החוכמה לא מפני דבר בעולם, לא מפני יראת הרעה ולא כדי לירש הטובה, אלא עושה האמת מפני שהוא אמת

הלכה ג

אהבה גדולה יתרה רבה עזה עד מאד, עד שתהא נפשו קשורה באהבת השם ... וכל שיר השירים משל הוא לענין זה




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