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Use of the word 'Jew'


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#21 Rivka5768

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:57 AM

Well I know all of those excuses but it still doesnt make any sense. In fact.....alright this is my stand....

I was born
I was told to worship a dude named Jesus
I asked why
I was told I was going to hell

so I continued on with my life not concerning myself with religion because at an early age I could tell something wasn't right (I never doubted G-d just never felt right with the idea he/she/it was a man)

So I go on with my life. School
I observe that for thousands of years my species have been killing each other over Jews.

At the age of 20 I fall in love with history. I am now 24 and I am still sitting here saying
".........so.............what the heck is going on?"

It's mind boggling really. So the only thing I *know* is that I was born a human......in a world that revolves around something that happened with the Jews thousands of years ago and that it still doesn't make a bit of sense lol.

#22 Yudi

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:46 PM

Well I know all of those excuses but it still doesnt make any sense. In fact.....alright this is my stand....

It's mind boggling really. So the only thing I *know* is that I was born a human......in a world that revolves around something that happened with the Jews thousands of years ago and that it still doesn't make a bit of sense lol.


After you've eaten, then what? Life revolves around more than food, shelter, clothing, procreation etc.

G-d gave a message to humanity through the Jews, at Sinai. This message proclaims and demands that humanity act with conscience and ethics, it gives rights to all people, men, women, children, the poor, even to animals, it gives responsibilities to all people to act justly and fairly.

Those who want to live their own way, who want to ignore the paramount principles of justice and rights and responsibilities - the basics of the message the Jews bring to the world - will attack the messengers, namely, the Jews. They cannot attack the message because they know that the message is true and correct, but they can attack the Jews, and try to delegitimise and demonise and destroy the message.

#23 Yudi

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:00 AM

Then there is politics.

Christianity, in order to legitimate itself, had to delegitimise Judaism. This is done through the concept of supersessionism, that Judaism is no longer relevant and has been superseded, ie replaced, by Christianity. Islam also has done the same thing, to legitimise Islam, with their belief that Islam has superseded both Judaism and Christianity, which are now corrupted religions.

As Jews would not give up Torah and become Christians, then Christianity, in order, to prove the correctness of Christianity, had to demonise the Jews, eg 'sons of satan'. Early Christian theology and decrees ordered that the Jews be treated very badly, partly in order to punish the Jews, partly to show the superiority of Christianity, but partly also as an example to Christians of what happens to those who reject Jesus.

Theres lots more, but this is just a simple intro for you.

#24 Rivka5768

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

Then there is politics.

Christianity, in order to legitimate itself, had to delegitimise Judaism. This is done through the concept of supersessionism, that Judaism is no longer relevant and has been superseded, ie replaced, by Christianity. Islam also has done the same thing, to legitimise Islam, with their belief that Islam has superseded both Judaism and Christianity, which are now corrupted religions.

As Jews would not give up Torah and become Christians, then Christianity, in order, to prove the correctness of Christianity, had to demonise the Jews, eg 'sons of satan'. Early Christian theology and decrees ordered that the Jews be treated very badly, partly in order to punish the Jews, partly to show the superiority of Christianity, but partly also as an example to Christians of what happens to those who reject Jesus.

Theres lots more, but this is just a simple intro for you.



Yes! You're right. From what I've read, Christianity seemed to try and destroy many of the teachings of Judaism. From learning about Islam, I learned so much about Judaism that I never knew. That's why I like Islam. What I don't like is Muslims demonizing jews. Whenever I visit our local Mosque and I hear any jew bashing, I am quick to correct them. I understand that a lot of it is political esp with the whole Palestine thing but that doesn't mean JEWS are evil and doesn't mean Arabs are evil.....there are just evil people in all cultures/religions.

Christianity however.....growing up in a Christian family and then stepping outside to learn about Islam and Judaism, that is what blew my mind. Christians don't even KNOW about the majority of the very basic teachings. From my research, Christianity is paganism. Basically it was a political plot to destroy the jews by taking their scriptures and blending it with pagan rituals. One of the most obvious is worship of the SUN "G-d", which goes back to Egypt and the Exodus!! Not only that but the idea of G-d having a human child with a woman is an Ancient Greek Pagan belief. Ever heard of Demi Gods? Zeus having children with women? Sound familiar?

By the way...it's funny that you mention "even animals" hehe. I'm a big animal lover and now that I've studied the jewish version of the story of Rivka.....it makes a lot of sense. I seriously believe that there is a big importance with our names. She was born to a pagan family, was kind to animals, and she questioned her families traditions and ended up a jewish matriarch. I was born to a Christian family (basically pagans lol), I love animals and even give water to the sheep and goats in my town lolol, and what do you know.....I questioned and ended up leaving my families traditional practices. I'm no matriarch haha but I am proud of my name.

Anywho, when it comes to everyone demonizing each other to legitimize beliefs....its wrong. Human beings in general have distorted the word, especially those in political command. If people would realize this, stop the hate and learn from each other only then will mankind be closer to the truth of the word. I bothers me greatly and thats why I said that all I know is that I was born human and live in this world......because I refuse to claim any knowledge. The knowledge doesn't belong to me, G-d has the knowledge. I'm just another animal.....perhaps an "intelligent" species.....but an animal non the less. :)

and if any of you have ever experienced hate, I'm sorry that youve had to go through that. I send my unconditional love <3

#25 Alexander

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:15 PM

One of the most obvious is worship of the SUN "G-d", which goes back to Egypt and the Exodus!!

What on earth are you talking about; in what imaginable way does Christianity involve sun worship?

#26 Rivka5768

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

What on earth are you talking about; in what imaginable way does Christianity involve sun worship?


Well.... SUN worship

SON worship

think about it.

#27 Rivka5768

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:49 PM

and look at the "pictures" of Jesus and Mary. You often see a disk of light around their heads. Which is symbolic of "illumination", the halo; it is an ancient depiction of the sun rising over the horizon. When you see the ring of light around a figures head in art its meaning is of the sun giving power to the individual. They call this "Divine light". This is exactly why the Torah forbids idol worship and images, because there are a lot of hidden meanings and if you don't study symbols you can be easily fooled by the meaning. And of course you get the notion that G-d or the divine is that picture/idol you see.

#28 Alexander

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:19 AM

Well.... SUN worship

SON worship

think about it.

...you realise the English language didn't exist in ancient Judea? The words "sun" and "son" are completely unrelated in Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew, or any other language the early Christians would have spoken. Ridiculous.

#29 Rivka5768

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

I never said the English language existed then :) I simply said that there are a lot of implications of the earlier pagan faith in Christianity. That earlier faith included worship of a sun-God as most pagan faiths do. Not only that but what day do the Christians worship? Friday? No. Sunday. You can argue with me all you like but the fact remains that Christianity still holds a lot of pagan traditions.

Look at their holidays. "Christmas" and the "Christmas tree". That roots from the winter solstice celebration.

#30 Yudi

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:04 AM

... From learning about Islam, I learned so much about Judaism that I never knew. That's why I like Islam. What I don't like is Muslims demonizing jews. Whenever I visit our local Mosque and I hear any jew bashing, I am quick to correct them. I understand that a lot of it is political esp with the whole Palestine thing but that doesn't mean JEWS are evil and doesn't mean Arabs are evil.....there are just evil people in all cultures/religions.


There is much in common between Judaism and Islam, as both are orthopraxic and legalist religions. And many laws are very similar. However...

If you study Islam - Quran, ahadith, sirah, tafsir, fiqh, etc - then negative attitudes by Muslims towards Jews is rooted in Islam itself. For example, the five daily salat involves recital of Al-Fatihah which refers to Jews as being under the wrath of Allah. Sirah, biographies of Muhammad, explain that ‘the Jews’ tried to kill Muhammad in-utero. Eschatological beliefs include Messih Dajjal, the false Messiah, who is commonly believed to be a Jew, and who the Jews follow, and who brings upon the final destruction ending in the victory of the Muslims, the conversion of Christians to Islam, and the annihilation of the Jews from the face of the earth. With this theology, many Muslims harbour varying degrees of anti-Jewish views. However, not all Muslims are anti-Jewish.

It is this anti-Jewish theological basis that feeds and exacerbates the Arab-Israel conflict and which stifles a solution – not the other way around.

#31 Rivka5768

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:09 AM

:)

#32 Alexander

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:25 AM

I never said the English language existed then :) I simply said that there are a lot of implications of the earlier pagan faith in Christianity. That earlier faith included worship of a sun-God as most pagan faiths do. Not only that but what day do the Christians worship? Friday? No. Sunday.

...yeah, you again seem unaware of the fact that the early Christians did not speak English. "Sunday" in Greek would have been "Seventh [day]", without any reference to the sun. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

EDIT: I mean, obviously Christian holidays have adopted elements of the pagan cultures they assimilated, this is hardly a secret, but to suggest that the faith itself is pagan is a little out there IMO.

If you study Islam - Quran, ahadith, sirah, tafsir, fiqh, etc - then negative attitudes by Muslims towards Jews is rooted in Islam itself. For example, the five daily salat involves recital of Al-Fatihah which refers to Jews as being under the wrath of Allah

No it doesn't. It does include a reference to "those who have gone astray", but that's hardly limited to Jews in the Islamic mindset.

#33 Yudi

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

No it doesn't. It does include a reference to "those who have gone astray", but that's hardly limited to Jews in the Islamic mindset.


Al-Fatihah makes no specific reference to Jews or Christians, but Muslims understand that the verses "those under the wrath of Allah" refers to Jews and "those who have gone astray" refers to Christians.

However, there are some Muslims nowadays who are trying to have these verses understood as not referring to any particular people or religion.

#34 Rivka5768

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

You know what I don't understand? No one seems to admit Allah/God/YHWH's "wrath" against themselves. Nor does anyone seem to admit "going astray" themselves (all of humanity has gone astray, if you don't believe me turn on the news). Everyone can so easily point fingers at everyone else but why not point fingers at ourselves?

#35 usuario

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

Going astray from what? What is the right path? Is it the Din of Islam, the Noahide Laws of Judaism, or something else?

#36 Yudi

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

You know what I don't understand? No one seems to admit Allah/God/YHWH's "wrath" against themselves. Nor does anyone seem to admit "going astray" themselves (all of humanity has gone astray, if you don't believe me turn on the news). Everyone can so easily point fingers at everyone else but why not point fingers at ourselves?


Given that we have just had the month of Ellul and Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, I think many of us would be back on the right path, and will try to avoid straying from the path.

Being human, means we stray from the path. But we each have free will, and a conscience, and knowledge, and we are able to return, tshuvah, to the path.

As to pointing fingers, as they say, if I point a finger at you, three fingers point back at me.

#37 Rivka5768

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:59 AM

Given that we have just had the month of Ellul and Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, I think many of us would be back on the right path, and will try to avoid straying from the path.

Being human, means we stray from the path. But we each have free will, and a conscience, and knowledge, and we are able to return, tshuvah, to the path.

As to pointing fingers, as they say, if I point a finger at you, three fingers point back at me.


love it! and thats exactly what I meant :) being humans means we stray from the path. Life is a test.

#38 Rivka5768

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:05 AM

Going astray from what? What is the right path? Is it the Din of Islam, the Noahide Laws of Judaism, or something else?


Welll the way I see it is when there is an agreement between different religions/laws then that is obviously a sign of what is true. I believe that when humanity disagrees about knowledge and wisdom that is a sign that perhaps that knowledge is not granted to us, if it was there would be no dispute.

What is the right path? Unconditional love, learning, sacrificing your needs and wants for a greater cause but since I am neither jewish nor islamic the best I can do is keep learning and try my best to follow what is right.

#39 Yudi

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:46 AM

Isn't it more accurate to say "Hebrew"? I don't get where the word "Jew" even comes from?


Here's some info on the modern use of the term 'Hebrew' from the Anti-Defamation Commission in Australia:

"Despite the far more egalitarian socio-political conditions of colonial Australia, culturally anti-Jewish stereotyping remained. It was not uncommon to find Jewish caricatures gracing the colonial mainstream press.

"Indeed, a number of Jews felt the need to return to Biblical ways and call themselves ‘Hebrews” and their synagogues ‘Hebrew’ congregations, to lessen the stigma."

http://www.antidef.o...ia/w1/i1001456/

#40 ijs

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:02 AM

Christianity, in order to legitimate itself, had to delegitimise Judaism. This is done through the concept of supersessionism, that Judaism is no longer relevant and has been superseded, ie replaced, by Christianity. Islam also has done the same thing, to legitimise Islam, with their belief that Islam has superseded both Judaism and Christianity, which are now corrupted religions.


Another way I've heard it described is that Xians accept Torah while denying the oneness of G-d, while Muslims accept the oneness of G-d while denying the Torah. Thus, Jews insist on retaining the oneness of G-d causing Xians to hate us; and on retaining the (complete) Torah causing Muslims to hate us. Thus both are thoroughly unacceptable to Judaism.

You know what I don't understand? No one seems to admit Allah/God/YHWH's "wrath" against themselves. Nor does anyone seem to admit "going astray" themselves.

Given that we have just had the month of Ellul and Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur....


Indeed, there are blessings in the Shemonei Esrei about repentence and forgiveness that we say 3x/day, as well as Tachanun (when not inappropriate for one or another reason), all of which involve admitting our own mistakes.
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Chaim Yosef ben Yaakov Avraham

חיים יוסף בך יעקב אברהם




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